RFG Questions

American_Ernesider · 04-15-2014, 10:52 PM

Wasn't sure if I should hijack my own thread or not already, so I thought I'd start a new one here.

While using the random fighter generator, I noticed that some of my fighters had info that I didn't think matched (like an Austrian from and residing in Japan, and another that was from and resides in Mexico). Then I looked at their Biography page and they all seem to have a biography, with a BoxRec link (to a fighter that matches the biography, but not the RFG fighter).

Is this how the RFG works? Or am I missing something?

For example -- RFG JBW from Germany named Holger Isringhausen.
Fighter Details notes -- Nickname = "Chava"
Date of birth = 1985-07-22
Date of Death = 1982-08-12 hmmmmm
Birth City and Home town are in Mexico
Biography has him as a WBC FW champion...Box Rec links that to Salvador Sanchez

Hanson Bros · 04-16-2014, 07:13 AM

are you using 2013 or a previous version of the game ... I use 2.5 exclusively and that never happens in 2.5 .... if it is happening in 2013 then it sounds like a bug because it should not be happening

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanson bros

are you using 2013 or a previous version of the game ... I use 2.5 exclusively and that never happens in 2.5 .... If it is happening in 2013 then it sounds like a bug because it should not be happening

2013

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 11:03 AM

I don't have the game handy right now, but I wanted to mention that it doesn't appear that the randomly generated fighters take the same stats as whatever real-life biography/nickname it is pulling from.

I'm just not sure how/why it is behaving that way. I seldom go into the fighter card itself, especially with RFGs where my intention is for them to help pad stats of real life fighters, and happened upon it by chance while trying to determine why RFGs I created in one universe received messages about an ID already existing when I tried importing them into my main universe.

Also, it seemed like a lot of my JBW RFW were getting real-life FW biographies. (I didn't check all of them, but I thought it was odd it picked such a close weight class.)

Hanson Bros · 04-16-2014, 12:50 PM

that sounds like a bug I went through a bunch of my RFG's in 2.5 and none of them a date of death, birth city, biography or anything else

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson Bros

that sounds like a bug I went through a bunch of my RFG's in 2.5 and none of them a date of death, birth city, biography or anything else

Is there anywhere that I need to go to report this...or is this thread sufficient?

Hanson Bros · 04-16-2014, 03:54 PM

put a note in the 1.4 release thread

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson Bros

put a note in the 1.4 release thread

Wouldn't you just know it...so far, I haven't been able to replicate the issue I had last night! Hopefully I haven't totally lost my mind!

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American_Ernesider

Wouldn't you just know it...so far, I haven't been able to replicate the issue I had last night! Hopefully I haven't totally lost my mind!

AAnnnd...then I it looks like I can replicate it again....lol

American_Ernesider · 04-16-2014, 05:40 PM

When I started a universe and let it populate everything -- the RFG worked correctly that I can tell.

When I started a universe and selected no fighters to load (was going to populate as a RFG only universe) -- I experienced ths issue in the first post.

Kevin · 05-05-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American_Ernesider

When I started a universe and let it populate everything -- the RFG worked correctly that I can tell.

When I started a universe and selected no fighters to load (was going to populate as a RFG only universe) -- I experienced ths issue in the first post.

I'm a long time fan of this series but the RGF in TB2013 is crap. I tried creating a fictional universe. Very few KO or TKOs compared to real fighters and a huge amount of DQs even after toning down referee settings.

I'm to the point of parking this version until I hear things are working much better.

Antonin · 05-09-2014, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

...I tried creating a fictional universe. Very few KO or TKOs compared to real fighters and a huge amount of DQs even after toning down referee settings...

This has also been my experience.

It's nice to have a feature like a career earnings tracker, and it's nice to see a fighter displayed with his correct skin color. But the KO/TKO/DQ issue is enough to make you not want to play the game, because you can't run any kind of remotely realistic and enjoyable fictional universe.

Kevin · 05-10-2014, 09:14 AM

I decided to further look at this problem by looking at the RFG created fighters in Title Bout 2013 versus the old version 2.5.

I looked at the generated lightweight males based on realistic ratings in the new version.
All of the fighters chins versus KO or KD were 0 or 1 and none of the fighters had any allocation for 3 point punches.

In 2.5 most fighters had a t least a small percentage of 3 point punches and their chin ratings versus KO and KD were much more varied.

It's obvious some of the care and detail in 2.5 was thrown away in the new version (at least for fictional fighters) to make the new version.

As someone who has played and simulated many fights with TB in recent years, I want to use fictional fighters as I have played the real fighters so much, I know how my universes will turn out with them.

Bottom Line, I am going back to version 2.5 until we get the career play in a future version that generates realistic fictional ratings.

Cap · 05-16-2014, 01:17 PM

It's unfortunate that Paul wasn't able to transfer all the parts that worked in earlier versions over to the new platform unchanged. Some programming compatibility problem maybe? I can easily understand wanting to change some of the look of the game to make it more your own ;-) but it seems logical to keep popular aspects in the upgrade from 2.5 to PISD TB2013.

Cap

pisdpaul · 05-18-2014, 06:07 AM

OK, seems something went wrong here as I did not intentionally change the RFG logic... I get the impression the RFG bugs are when you start a game without any fighters is that correct?

FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount) it needs to use a lookup table. In v2.5 this is the rfg.dat file in the data folder. So this means the RFG works in two modes, on a full db and an empty db.

Can you please confirm are these bugs you mention limited to the empty/small fighters table? Do these issues still exist when you have a full fighters table?

Maybe try creating a game with a full fighters table, move all fighters into a group "TBD". Run the RFG to create fictional fighters, then delete all the fighters in the TBD group. Does this solve all the problems?

Cap · 05-18-2014, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

OK, seems something went wrong here as I did not intentionally change the RFG logic... I get the impression the RFG bugs are when you start a game without any fighters is that correct?

FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount) it needs to use a lookup table. In v2.5 this is the rfg.dat file in the data folder. So this means the RFG works in two modes, on a full db and an empty db.

Can you please confirm are these bugs you mention limited to the empty/small fighters table? Do these issues still exist when you have a full fighters table?

Maybe try creating a game with a full fighters table, move all fighters into a group "TBD". Run the RFG to create fictional fighters, then delete all the fighters in the TBD group. Does this solve all the problems?

"...FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount)..."

Someone is bound to ask. What's the minimum amount?

Cap [President of the Canadian Luddite Society]
Number 7 fan of TB2013

Kevin · 05-20-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

OK, seems something went wrong here as I did not intentionally change the RFG logic... I get the impression the RFG bugs are when you start a game without any fighters is that correct?

FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount) it needs to use a lookup table. In v2.5 this is the rfg.dat file in the data folder. So this means the RFG works in two modes, on a full db and an empty db.

Can you please confirm are these bugs you mention limited to the empty/small fighters table? Do these issues still exist when you have a full fighters table?

Maybe try creating a game with a full fighters table, move all fighters into a group "TBD". Run the RFG to create fictional fighters, then delete all the fighters in the TBD group. Does this solve all the problems?

This was with an empty table. I did go back to 2.5 and everything worked like a charm with an empty table there. I am also getting much more reasonable DQ occurrences. While I like some of the new tweaks in 2013, I still prefer 2.5 and will continue to use it for my current universe. I am able to do more in less time with it based on how I have things set up.

I hope the new game continues to develop, but it needs to get back some of the old functionality as well.

amst1979 · 05-22-2014, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

OK, seems something went wrong here as I did not intentionally change the RFG logic... I get the impression the RFG bugs are when you start a game without any fighters is that correct?

FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount) it needs to use a lookup table. In v2.5 this is the rfg.dat file in the data folder. So this means the RFG works in two modes, on a full db and an empty db.

Can you please confirm are these bugs you mention limited to the empty/small fighters table? Do these issues still exist when you have a full fighters table?

Maybe try creating a game with a full fighters table, move all fighters into a group "TBD". Run the RFG to create fictional fighters, then delete all the fighters in the TBD group. Does this solve all the problems?

That post solved all of my problems as far as fighters generated by the RFG. Thanks, Paul!

Kevin, keeping the real life fighters in a separate group works. Granted, a little tweaking may be necessary such as increasing the percentage of fighters with a cut rating of 1 but the RFG does seem to be influenced by the ratings of fighters in the database that's currently in use. I'm sure you'll let us know if there are still issues.

pisdpaul · 05-22-2014, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

"...FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount)..."

Someone is bound to ask. What's the minimum amount?

Cap [President of the Canadian Luddite Society]
Number 7 fan of TB2013

IIRC its set to 100 fighters...

amst1979 · 05-22-2014, 07:16 PM

Uh, Paul, I may have jumped the gun a little as far as the ratings of the RFG sample although I meant that thank you.

The real life database does dictate RFG ratings to some degree but 3-point punches, while varied now, don't entirely correlate to hitting power.

This may be an issue for another thread but Paul, Kevin, there's a large percentage of 0-rated fighters in the real life database with all 3 knockdown ratings of 0. That may be one of the reasons why there are still a few 0s in those ratings in my RFG sample (5000 fighters, by the way).

I have a possible solution but there either needs to be someone with a lot of free time or this has to be a group project - a separate database designed to properly influence the ratings of RFG-created fighters - if that would even work in this version. I don't know if it absolutely has to be the real life database.

04-15-2014, 10:52 PM	#1
American_Ernesider Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 354	RFG Questions Wasn't sure if I should hijack my own thread or not already, so I thought I'd start a new one here. While using the random fighter generator, I noticed that some of my fighters had info that I didn't think matched (like an Austrian from and residing in Japan, and another that was from and resides in Mexico). Then I looked at their Biography page and they all seem to have a biography, with a BoxRec link (to a fighter that matches the biography, but not the RFG fighter). Is this how the RFG works? Or am I missing something? For example -- RFG JBW from Germany named Holger Isringhausen. Fighter Details notes -- Nickname = "Chava" Date of birth = 1985-07-22 Date of Death = 1982-08-12 hmmmmm Birth City and Home town are in Mexico Biography has him as a WBC FW champion...Box Rec links that to Salvador Sanchez Last edited by American_Ernesider; 04-15-2014 at 11:01 PM.

04-16-2014, 07:13 AM	#2
Hanson Bros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,002	are you using 2013 or a previous version of the game ... I use 2.5 exclusively and that never happens in 2.5 .... if it is happening in 2013 then it sounds like a bug because it should not be happening __________________ LBA UTBA3

04-16-2014, 11:03 AM	#4
American_Ernesider Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 354	I don't have the game handy right now, but I wanted to mention that it doesn't appear that the randomly generated fighters take the same stats as whatever real-life biography/nickname it is pulling from. I'm just not sure how/why it is behaving that way. I seldom go into the fighter card itself, especially with RFGs where my intention is for them to help pad stats of real life fighters, and happened upon it by chance while trying to determine why RFGs I created in one universe received messages about an ID already existing when I tried importing them into my main universe. Also, it seemed like a lot of my JBW RFW were getting real-life FW biographies. (I didn't check all of them, but I thought it was odd it picked such a close weight class.) Last edited by American_Ernesider; 04-16-2014 at 11:04 AM.

04-16-2014, 12:50 PM	#5
Hanson Bros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,002	that sounds like a bug I went through a bunch of my RFG's in 2.5 and none of them a date of death, birth city, biography or anything else __________________ LBA UTBA3

04-16-2014, 03:54 PM	#7
Hanson Bros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,002	put a note in the 1.4 release thread __________________ LBA UTBA3

04-16-2014, 05:40 PM	#10
American_Ernesider Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 354	When I started a universe and let it populate everything -- the RFG worked correctly that I can tell. When I started a universe and selected no fighters to load (was going to populate as a RFG only universe) -- I experienced ths issue in the first post.

05-10-2014, 09:14 AM	#13
Kevin All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 501	Comparison with V2.5 I decided to further look at this problem by looking at the RFG created fighters in Title Bout 2013 versus the old version 2.5. I looked at the generated lightweight males based on realistic ratings in the new version. All of the fighters chins versus KO or KD were 0 or 1 and none of the fighters had any allocation for 3 point punches. In 2.5 most fighters had a t least a small percentage of 3 point punches and their chin ratings versus KO and KD were much more varied. It's obvious some of the care and detail in 2.5 was thrown away in the new version (at least for fictional fighters) to make the new version. As someone who has played and simulated many fights with TB in recent years, I want to use fictional fighters as I have played the real fighters so much, I know how my universes will turn out with them. Bottom Line, I am going back to version 2.5 until we get the career play in a future version that generates realistic fictional ratings. __________________ It seems more like today than it did all day yesterday.

05-16-2014, 01:17 PM	#14
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,776 Blog Entries: 4	It's unfortunate that Paul wasn't able to transfer all the parts that worked in earlier versions over to the new platform unchanged. Some programming compatibility problem maybe? I can easily understand wanting to change some of the look of the game to make it more your own ;-) but it seems logical to keep popular aspects in the upgrade from 2.5 to PISD TB2013. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 05-18-2014 at 09:03 AM.

05-18-2014, 06:07 AM	#15
pisdpaul Developer PISD & OOTP Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,207	OK, seems something went wrong here as I did not intentionally change the RFG logic... I get the impression the RFG bugs are when you start a game without any fighters is that correct? FYI: the RFG uses the current fighters table to balance the random stats but if the table is empty (or below a min amount) it needs to use a lookup table. In v2.5 this is the rfg.dat file in the data folder. So this means the RFG works in two modes, on a full db and an empty db. Can you please confirm are these bugs you mention limited to the empty/small fighters table? Do these issues still exist when you have a full fighters table? Maybe try creating a game with a full fighters table, move all fighters into a group "TBD". Run the RFG to create fictional fighters, then delete all the fighters in the TBD group. Does this solve all the problems? Last edited by pisdpaul; 05-18-2014 at 06:10 AM.

05-22-2014, 07:16 PM	#20
amst1979 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 20	Uh, Paul, I may have jumped the gun a little as far as the ratings of the RFG sample although I meant that thank you. The real life database does dictate RFG ratings to some degree but 3-point punches, while varied now, don't entirely correlate to hitting power. This may be an issue for another thread but Paul, Kevin, there's a large percentage of 0-rated fighters in the real life database with all 3 knockdown ratings of 0. That may be one of the reasons why there are still a few 0s in those ratings in my RFG sample (5000 fighters, by the way). I have a possible solution but there either needs to be someone with a lot of free time or this has to be a group project - a separate database designed to properly influence the ratings of RFG-created fighters - if that would even work in this version. I don't know if it absolutely has to be the real life database.