Ali vs. Joe louis

BrocktonBlockBuster · 08-08-2003, 01:12 AM

I was just reading Sugar Ray Robinson's thoughts on this matchup. He said Louis would have won. I think I agree with him. Last night I watched some of Ali and Henry Cooper. Ali in my opinion did not look like superman as some think that he was. For the heavyweights best boxer Ali-Best slugger Marciano-Best boxer/slugger Joe louis. Ali beats Marciano based on his speed. Marciano beats Louis based on eventually Louis can't stay away. Louis beats Ali based on he was quick enough to get Ali and wouldn't have let a hurt Ali off the hook. Ali,Louis,Marciano-paper,scissors,rock.

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 01:58 AM

Ok you cant judge a fighter on one fight! Its like someone saying based on george forman performance vs ali i dont think he hit that hard. Well did you see forman vs frazier? Come on ali probly was out of shape man you cant judge a fighter over one fight!
\
Joe louis Can beat ali! He can beat the young ali. But he cant beat the older ali, and wiser one. The young ali would Based his fight on speed and his jab. But the old ali is smart, smarter than joe and he will find a way to win. Lets not forget the speed go to ali, reach go to ali, Weight goes to ali, and hight goes to ali. And the smarter fighter is ali. Ali in his younger years would not take advantage of that, but a older ali would! Young ali 15 round decision to louis. Older wiser smarter ali i would say knockout 13 round. and im a fan of ali its hard for me to face the facts that louis would beat him but i have to tell the truth louis beats a younger ali. But no way louis wins against older wiser smarter ali.

Mark42661 · 08-08-2003, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by erickdamac
Joe louis Can beat ali! He can beat the young ali. But he cant beat the older ali, and wiser one. The young ali would Based his fight on speed and his jab. But the old ali is smart, smarter than joe and he will find a way to win. Lets not forget the speed go to ali, reach go to ali, Weight goes to ali, and hight goes to ali. And the smarter fighter is ali. Ali in his younger years would not take advantage of that, but a older ali would! Young ali 15 round decision to louis. Older wiser smarter ali i would say knockout 13 round. and im a fan of ali its hard for me to face the facts that louis would beat him but i have to tell the truth louis beats a younger ali. But no way louis wins against older wiser smarter ali.

You know, I think I may actually agree with you Erick. (wow!

) I too believe that a prime Joe Louis would have a much tougher time with the version of Ali who fought George Foreman.

However, I do think Louis would also have a very hard time with the Ali who defeated Sonny Liston. Louis had trouble with slick, fast fighters. A good example is Tommy Farr, who gave Louis a very competitive fight....and Farr had nowhere near the speed and reach of Ali. Louis liked to get in close and nail his opponents with those wicked short punches...but I think he'd have a problem getting in close enough against the young Ali.

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 04:02 AM

I agree with you 100 percent.

But a prime joe louis will beat marciano dont you guys agree? because louis was past his prime vs marciano.

Mark42661 · 08-08-2003, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by erickdamac
But a prime joe louis will beat marciano dont you guys agree? because louis was past his prime vs marciano.

Yes, Louis was past his prime when he fought Marciano...but I'm not too sure that even a prime Joe Louis would have beaten him. I'm of the opinion that Marciano would pound Louis so much to the arms and body that he would wear him down and knock him out in the later rounds.

Here are some interesting little tidbits about Marciano's punching power that I ran across:

When Marciano was destroying all challengers with his blockbuster assault, the U.S. Testing Co. was asked to measure the power of Rocky's wallop. Its findings:
"Marciano's knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground." Boxing Illustrated December 1963

Bert Sugar (Foremest Boxing Historian):
"As indestructible as any fighter in history, Marciano walked into-and through- thousands of hard, clean, jolting shots in the manner of a human steamroller, wrecking his opponents with baseball-bat swings to the arms, the midsection, the head, and just about anything else in reach. Always ready to take two or three punches to land one, the determined Marciano melted down the guards of his opponents, and with the shortest arms in the history of the heavyweight division, hewed them down to size." He said of Marciano's right hand power punch, called the "Suzie-Q", "It was one of the most devastating weapons ever brought into a ring."

What boxers and sports writers said of Marciano's punching power:

Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."
He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

Jersey Joe Walcott, who lost his title to Marciano in a 13th round KO and a rematch in a 1st round KO, was asked who hit harder, Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano. "Joe could take you out with combinations...Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could. I have to say, with all respect to Joe, Marciano hit harder."

Archie Moore (KO'd in 9th), when asked by reporters which of Marciano's punches hurt him, said, "Man they all hurt."
He also said, "After a fight with Marciano, it felt like you had been beat all over the upper body with a blackjack or hit with rocks."
"He could hurt you, sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves."

Jack Dempsey, interviewed in the 1953 fall edition of Fight magazine said, "I've scored my share of knockouts along the way, but more often than not my opponents got up after being knocked down and had to be knocked down repeatedly. The same is true of Joe Louis. But Marciano needs only one solid smash and it's all over.
That's why I say Rocky Marciano is the hardest-hitting heavyweight champion I have seen."

Marciano's KO percentage is 88%, the highest of ANY heavyweight champion in the history of boxing.
George Foreman 87%
Joe Frazier 84%
James Jefferies 83%
Jack Dempsey 79%
Joe Louis 78%
Sonny Liston 78%
Max Baer 74%
Archie Moore 73% (I know Archie wasn't a heavyweight, but he did knock out more men than any other fighter in any weight class)

And Finally:

Joe Louis himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky."
Charlie Goldman was asked about this very thing after Rocky knocked out an aging Joe Louis and said, "It would have been a shorter fight. A younger Louis would have come after Rocky. And nobody can survive coming to Marciano."

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 05:13 AM

Well moore was not a heavyweight but he did fight marciano and in his later years became a heavyweight.

Its not about who hits harder because marciano got that. but look at louis he is a boxer/slugger. Marciano is a slugger with stemina now look at Foreman 87 percent he fought 40+ Fights then marciano against harder oppenets. Marciano Fought in a dead era of boxing. He was great but his 88 percent kncokout percentage dont mean he hit harder the foreman! He fought alot of low class fighters. And he did fight good fighter too and knocked them out! Please dont think im taking Anything away from rocky!!! just read and you might understand my point of view.

Rocky fought great fighter,.But he fought way too many fighter with bad records, bad chins , and simply new comers. People was blinded by this due to the fact that the rock was the rock! no body care who tyson fights as long as he fights. That how it was. the 88 knock percentage dont mean much to me even though i think he had more power then louis,. But louis in his prime Had power close to rocky and he through dangerous combinations.
Something i dont think rocky could handle. I think a louis in his prime would bea rocky in the 12 round due to tko!

rocky was powerful, But he was slow he hit the body then came up stairs. But a young louis and a young marciano or should i say prime for oth, Anyway i think louis is to fast and will beat rocky easy. I know im about to get like 60 people jumping on m but good fighter in bad era's make Great results! Just look at lennox lewis!

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 05:17 AM

and as far as louis statements goes. Nobody know there self better the themself! so if he said that then that what would have happend but! He could have just been showing respect to the dead? He knew if he said well i youn louis vs a young marciano i would have won! He knew mariano couldn't say No way i would have pounded your arms in blah blah blah.

dempsonny · 08-08-2003, 09:46 AM

Erick ,
Please don't mention this Lewis in the same sentence as Marciano. Talk about fighting bad fighters. Lewis got KO'd by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman. You know there names because of this era of television and every other fighter holding a title. You say Rocky didn't fight anyone but, Charles, Walcott, LaStarza, Layne and Matthews would have beaten the daylights out of Lewis. Don't say Walcott was old because he was a much better fighter when he was older than what should have been his prime years.

Dempsonny

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 10:04 AM

ok danny look at this!

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 10:40 AM

Willis Red Applegate 196 5-13-2
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1951-03-26 186¾ Art Henri 184½ 13-15-1
Providence, RI, USA W KO 9
1951-03-20 186 Harold (Kid) Mitchell 181½ 0-10-2
Hartford, CT, USA W KO 2
1951-01-29 192½ Keene Simmons 200½ 7-6-1
Providence, RI, USA W KO 8
1950-12-18 190¼ Big Bill Wilson 229½ 15-7-1
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1950-11-13 186 Ted Lowry 180¾ 59-54-9
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1950-09-18 190½ Johnny Shkor 220½ 28-19-2
Providence, RI, USA W KO 6
1950-07-10 188 Gino Buonvino 17-5-1
Braves Field, Boston, MA, USA W KO 10
1950-06-05 189¼ Eldridge Eatman 206¾ 14-17-3
Phil Muscato 180 55-20-0
Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 5
1949-12-02 181 Pat Richards 187 20-5-5
Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA W KO 2
1949-11-07 185½ Joe Domonic 190¼ 18-10-0
Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 2
1949-10-10 180¼ Ted Lowry 177¾ 56-46-8
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1949-09-26 179¾ Tommy Giorgio 183¾ 9-9-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 4
1949-08-16 184 Pete Louthis 23-12-3
New Bedford, MA, USA W KO 3
1949-07-18 184½ Harry Haft 174¾ 11-6-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-05-23 181¼ Don Mogard 187¼ 15-8-0
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1949-05-02 183 Jimmy Evans 181 18-7-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-04-11 183 James Walls 190¼ 9-13-1
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-03-28 182¼ Artie Donato 201¾ 7-5-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1949-03-21 183 Johnny Pretzie 7-6-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 5
1948-12-14 180 Gilley Ferron 0-2-0
Convention Hall, Philadelphia, PA, USA W KO 2
1948-11-29 185 Patrick (Red) Connolly 213 8-5-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-10-04 178 Bob Jefferson 172 0-2-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 2
1948-09-30 179 Gilbert Cardone 189 0-1-0
Washington, DC, USA W KO 1
1948-09-20 182 Bill Hardeman 206½ 0-4-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-09-13 183 Jerry Jackson 254 0-0-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-08-30 184¼ Jimmy Weeks 190 0-0-0
Phil Muscato 180 55-20-0
Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 5
1949-12-02 181 Pat Richards 187 20-5-5
Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA W KO 2
1949-11-07 185½ Joe Domonic 190¼ 18-10-0
Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 2
1949-10-10 180¼ Ted Lowry 177¾ 56-46-8
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1949-09-26 179¾ Tommy Giorgio 183¾ 9-9-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 4
1949-08-16 184 Pete Louthis 23-12-3
New Bedford, MA, USA W KO 3
1949-07-18 184½ Harry Haft 174¾ 11-6-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-05-23 181¼ Don Mogard 187¼ 15-8-0
Providence, RI, USA W UD 10
1949-05-02 183 Jimmy Evans 181 18-7-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-04-11 183 James Walls 190¼ 9-13-1
Providence, RI, USA W KO 3
1949-03-28 182¼ Artie Donato 201¾ 7-5-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1949-03-21 183 Johnny Pretzie 7-6-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 5
1948-12-14 180 Gilley Ferron 0-2-0
Convention Hall, Philadelphia, PA, USA W KO 2
1948-11-29 185 Patrick (Red) Connolly 213 8-5-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-10-04 178 Bob Jefferson 172 0-2-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 2
1948-09-30 179 Gilbert Cardone 189 0-1-0
Washington, DC, USA W KO 1
1948-09-20 182 Bill Hardeman 206½ 0-4-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-09-13 183 Jerry Jackson 254 0-0-0
Providence, RI, USA W KO 1
1948-08-30 184¼ Jimmy Weeks 190 0-0-0

Man are you crazy hasim rahman is a great fight! he is 6'4 with a jab (did you watchj tua fight) This man is going to be somebody and comeon what year was you born? Do you think LaStarza, Layne and Matthews Would beat lewis! COME ON MAN! lewis is a great fighter!!!! Stop making him to be bad this man got a jab and he is tall and strong its no way IN HELL those fighters beat lewis! MARCIANO Can beat lewis! Marciano woul have got cuts all over his face (lewis is good a that!) And he would not be able to use his left due to lewis height! This is not dempsy who fought taller fighter this is marciano! Man for real i dont know if lewis did not sign you autograph or what but lewis is not a bum!

e is a great fighter. Marciano is not a bum he is a good fighter. But he is too slow and short to get to lewis! Mike tyson who is fast could not even get to lewis! The guy you naming mcall who knocked lewis out , in the rematch lewis won! yeah lewis have a habbit of taking fighter lightly but no way LaStarza, Layne and Matthews beats lewis! come on man i dont kno if your stuck in the 50's or what but your Just talking not doing research! Marciano was a good fighter in a bad era and made Great results. Rocky had the biggest heart all time! he always am into fihts In his best shaped never took a fighter lightly thats is why he never lost! but put him in the 70's vs ken norton, ali, frazier, foreman,Earnie Shavers,Floyd Patterson(This fight could have happend) I think oatterson would have won,Sonny Liston,Ingemar Johansson ( I love this guy!!!) i dont think he would be unbeaten or lets put him in the 90's!

Holyfield, Reddick bowe, Mike tyson, Buster doulas,Lennox Lewis

Vitali Klitschko,Wladimir Klitschko,Ike Ibeabuchi,david tua. Ok Lets see how he o in the 30's?

Max Baer,Primo Carnera,Roy Lazer,Max Schmeling,Nathan Mann,John Henry Lewis,Arturo Godoy( I like this guy)
Ok lets do the 1910,1920 (the last one)

Gene Tunney,Georges Carpentier,Bill (KO) Brennan,Jack Johnson,
James J. Jeffries,Tommy Burns(I think marciano wins easy but i like this guy) Sam Langford . Whats my point?

Ok as i lookat this list of men Good and great fighter i named from diffrent era's i say wow i dont think rocky marciano could beat 75% of these fighter! But when i say loe jouis i say hmm i think joe can beat 80% of these fighters! That what makes joe great and rocky good! Lets say jack dempsey i would say i think he can beat 70% of these fighters, ali I think he can beat 90% of these fighter the list goes on and on! Thats why i say marciano was a good fighter in a bad era! He is simply to slow!

PittPanther · 08-08-2003, 12:48 PM

I was going to post a comment, but thought better of it.

BrocktonBlockBuster · 08-08-2003, 12:59 PM

Mark,good stuff you posted about Rocky's power.

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 01:00 PM

no please post dont think your going to hurt my feelings!

Trust me i dont care what some man/woman have to say about me. Unless its my girlfriend or Grandfather. (dont really care what my girl thinks either)

wildhawke11 · 08-08-2003, 02:38 PM

Eric
I have not said a word yet on this thread

Lets try it another way Eric in regard to Marciano fighting bums

How would you regard Ali if he had fought only in Marciano`s time and against the same men as Rocky did.

What better then Rocky could Ali have done, and then where would you place Ali in the All Time Ratings.

Would you in fact have dropped Ali out of the Top Ten.

All Ali can do is beat them all like Rocky did,

Then even if he does, and i did say IF because Wallcott might have taken Ail to School, your well underestimating Walcott, who was at his best in his later years in fact. Wallcot was a master boxer slugger and could really hit. He borders around the Top 15.

Then there is Charles a better boxer then Joe Louis in fact, who might well have surprised Ali and certainly Clay.
In his case i think without looking it up Charles was only about two years older then Rocky if i recall

Check out Harry Kid Mathews record you might get a little surprise there to. Was he a bum ? A lot of boxing experts would disagree with you.

Then there is Old Archie Moore
Ali has to now fight him when he was in fact 7 years younger then when in fact Ali did meet him.

As you now drop Rocky out of the Top Ten for the lack of what you say is quality opponents

Then you have to also drop Ail down with him.
Because Ali cant do better then Rocky if he was indeed fighting in Marciano`s time against the same men and may have in fact have done worse.who knows.

Mark was right great post Mark
Louis in fact did say he was not sure he could beat Rocky.

Sorry Guys to use Ali again as my target but i know Eric thinks he is the Best as most of us do. myself included.
So i am using him and a time era to make a case for Rocky.

ChampMan · 08-08-2003, 03:23 PM

hey wildhawke11, seems like we have had this conversation with our young HW knockout artist erick before....

erickdamac · 08-08-2003, 05:58 PM

Wild i read what you said and came up with this. In a desprate come back win i know what i have o do, I have to have a ko post!

Ali fought moore 7 years after moore fought rocky, You are right!
But moore career is based on louis ,moore and jersy fight. If you ask the normal person what was ali best fights they would say frazier , foreman,norton, liston! My point? No one based ali greatness on the old moore! and everyone is quick to say well marciano beated moore! I beleive if ali fought from 1948-1955 He would have dominated not one person from that time was as big and quick as he was. Now wild im not saying rocky not in my top ten! he is he is in my top 5, but when the guy keep acting like lewis is junk then i have to remind him of other people who fought nobody's But was still good/great fighters!

Wild i know you love the rock from all he over came and all he gave to the sport, and you want that to be known! I understand that really. But if someone make it like lewis fought nothing but old fighter and bums And people who been in wars. Well then i have to say if your going to judg lewis this way then judge marciano this way too1 Because thats all he fought! Is it lewis fault that everyone is old in boxing today? or thecompitition is not like it was in the 0's or 90's no and was it rocky fualt? No! But if you judg lewis this way then you have to judge rocky too. thats all im saying. im not here saying well i dont likethe rock! No when The guy keep sayin please dont mention lewis name with marciano, like marciano is so much greater then him then thats when i have to say hey man, marciano Was in lewis same situation, The only diffrence is rocky had a better smile then lewis!

Im not trying to take anything away from the rock, but lewis and the rock where in similar situations! WILD, give me a honest answer do you think the rock would do good in the 90's, 70's, 30,s 1910-1920,s? Im asking you that and im asking the same for ali. Give me your honest answer, Dont judge because you like one better just them as fighters nothing else. a reason would be nice too.

wildhawke11 · 08-08-2003, 08:38 PM

When we first started talking about Rocky Marciano you more or less thought he was only average, because you figured his competition was weak.

Then after a few postings and cross postings from us both and i might add with some knowledgeable help from the other posters you moved him into the lower top 10

Now i note from your last posting he has now jumped to number 5

If we continue to debate on Rocky
Hell he might make the No 1 Position LOL

Eric i do have to say this
" I sometimes wonder who on here you discuss Rocky Marciano with because i my self feel your over rating a very average fighter " LOL

Sorry Eric but i could not resist that last comment of mine.
Only Joking.

Maybe after i have had a coffee i might give you a serious answer my friend.

08-08-2003, 01:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
BrocktonBlockBuster Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 280	Ali vs. Joe louis I was just reading Sugar Ray Robinson's thoughts on this matchup. He said Louis would have won. I think I agree with him. Last night I watched some of Ali and Henry Cooper. Ali in my opinion did not look like superman as some think that he was. For the heavyweights best boxer Ali-Best slugger Marciano-Best boxer/slugger Joe louis. Ali beats Marciano based on his speed. Marciano beats Louis based on eventually Louis can't stay away. Louis beats Ali based on he was quick enough to get Ali and wouldn't have let a hurt Ali off the hook. Ali,Louis,Marciano-paper,scissors,rock.

08-08-2003, 01:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Ok you cant judge a fighter on one fight! Its like someone saying based on george forman performance vs ali i dont think he hit that hard. Well did you see forman vs frazier? Come on ali probly was out of shape man you cant judge a fighter over one fight! \ Joe louis Can beat ali! He can beat the young ali. But he cant beat the older ali, and wiser one. The young ali would Based his fight on speed and his jab. But the old ali is smart, smarter than joe and he will find a way to win. Lets not forget the speed go to ali, reach go to ali, Weight goes to ali, and hight goes to ali. And the smarter fighter is ali. Ali in his younger years would not take advantage of that, but a older ali would! Young ali 15 round decision to louis. Older wiser smarter ali i would say knockout 13 round. and im a fan of ali its hard for me to face the facts that louis would beat him but i have to tell the truth louis beats a younger ali. But no way louis wins against older wiser smarter ali. Last edited by erickdamac : 08-08-2003 at 02:01 AM.

08-08-2003, 09:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
dempsonny Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: long island, n.y. Posts: 321	Erick , Please don't mention this Lewis in the same sentence as Marciano. Talk about fighting bad fighters. Lewis got KO'd by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman. You know there names because of this era of television and every other fighter holding a title. You say Rocky didn't fight anyone but, Charles, Walcott, LaStarza, Layne and Matthews would have beaten the daylights out of Lewis. Don't say Walcott was old because he was a much better fighter when he was older than what should have been his prime years. Dempsonny __________________ A house without a dog is not a home.

08-08-2003, 12:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,174	I was going to post a comment, but thought better of it. __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt!

08-08-2003, 02:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,834	Eric I have not said a word yet on this thread Lets try it another way Eric in regard to Marciano fighting bums How would you regard Ali if he had fought only in Marciano`s time and against the same men as Rocky did. What better then Rocky could Ali have done, and then where would you place Ali in the All Time Ratings. Would you in fact have dropped Ali out of the Top Ten. All Ali can do is beat them all like Rocky did, Then even if he does, and i did say IF because Wallcott might have taken Ail to School, your well underestimating Walcott, who was at his best in his later years in fact. Wallcot was a master boxer slugger and could really hit. He borders around the Top 15. Then there is Charles a better boxer then Joe Louis in fact, who might well have surprised Ali and certainly Clay. In his case i think without looking it up Charles was only about two years older then Rocky if i recall Check out Harry Kid Mathews record you might get a little surprise there to. Was he a bum ? A lot of boxing experts would disagree with you. Then there is Old Archie Moore Ali has to now fight him when he was in fact 7 years younger then when in fact Ali did meet him. As you now drop Rocky out of the Top Ten for the lack of what you say is quality opponents Then you have to also drop Ail down with him. Because Ali cant do better then Rocky if he was indeed fighting in Marciano`s time against the same men and may have in fact have done worse.who knows. Mark was right great post Mark Louis in fact did say he was not sure he could beat Rocky. Sorry Guys to use Ali again as my target but i know Eric thinks he is the Best as most of us do. myself included. So i am using him and a time era to make a case for Rocky. Last edited by wildhawke11 : 08-08-2003 at 02:45 PM.

08-08-2003, 04:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	I agree with you 100 percent. But a prime joe louis will beat marciano dont you guys agree? because louis was past his prime vs marciano.

08-08-2003, 05:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Well moore was not a heavyweight but he did fight marciano and in his later years became a heavyweight. Its not about who hits harder because marciano got that. but look at louis he is a boxer/slugger. Marciano is a slugger with stemina now look at Foreman 87 percent he fought 40+ Fights then marciano against harder oppenets. Marciano Fought in a dead era of boxing. He was great but his 88 percent kncokout percentage dont mean he hit harder the foreman! He fought alot of low class fighters. And he did fight good fighter too and knocked them out! Please dont think im taking Anything away from rocky!!! just read and you might understand my point of view. Rocky fought great fighter,.But he fought way too many fighter with bad records, bad chins , and simply new comers. People was blinded by this due to the fact that the rock was the rock! no body care who tyson fights as long as he fights. That how it was. the 88 knock percentage dont mean much to me even though i think he had more power then louis,. But louis in his prime Had power close to rocky and he through dangerous combinations. Something i dont think rocky could handle. I think a louis in his prime would bea rocky in the 12 round due to tko! rocky was powerful, But he was slow he hit the body then came up stairs. But a young louis and a young marciano or should i say prime for oth, Anyway i think louis is to fast and will beat rocky easy. I know im about to get like 60 people jumping on m but good fighter in bad era's make Great results! Just look at lennox lewis!

08-08-2003, 05:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	and as far as louis statements goes. Nobody know there self better the themself! so if he said that then that what would have happend but! He could have just been showing respect to the dead? He knew if he said well i youn louis vs a young marciano i would have won! He knew mariano couldn't say No way i would have pounded your arms in blah blah blah.

08-08-2003, 10:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	ok danny look at this!

08-08-2003, 10:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Willis Red Applegate 196 5-13-2 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1951-03-26 186¾ Art Henri 184½ 13-15-1 Providence, RI, USA W KO 9 1951-03-20 186 Harold (Kid) Mitchell 181½ 0-10-2 Hartford, CT, USA W KO 2 1951-01-29 192½ Keene Simmons 200½ 7-6-1 Providence, RI, USA W KO 8 1950-12-18 190¼ Big Bill Wilson 229½ 15-7-1 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1950-11-13 186 Ted Lowry 180¾ 59-54-9 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1950-09-18 190½ Johnny Shkor 220½ 28-19-2 Providence, RI, USA W KO 6 1950-07-10 188 Gino Buonvino 17-5-1 Braves Field, Boston, MA, USA W KO 10 1950-06-05 189¼ Eldridge Eatman 206¾ 14-17-3 Phil Muscato 180 55-20-0 Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 5 1949-12-02 181 Pat Richards 187 20-5-5 Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA W KO 2 1949-11-07 185½ Joe Domonic 190¼ 18-10-0 Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 2 1949-10-10 180¼ Ted Lowry 177¾ 56-46-8 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1949-09-26 179¾ Tommy Giorgio 183¾ 9-9-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 4 1949-08-16 184 Pete Louthis 23-12-3 New Bedford, MA, USA W KO 3 1949-07-18 184½ Harry Haft 174¾ 11-6-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-05-23 181¼ Don Mogard 187¼ 15-8-0 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1949-05-02 183 Jimmy Evans 181 18-7-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-04-11 183 James Walls 190¼ 9-13-1 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-03-28 182¼ Artie Donato 201¾ 7-5-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1949-03-21 183 Johnny Pretzie 7-6-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 5 1948-12-14 180 Gilley Ferron 0-2-0 Convention Hall, Philadelphia, PA, USA W KO 2 1948-11-29 185 Patrick (Red) Connolly 213 8-5-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-10-04 178 Bob Jefferson 172 0-2-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 2 1948-09-30 179 Gilbert Cardone 189 0-1-0 Washington, DC, USA W KO 1 1948-09-20 182 Bill Hardeman 206½ 0-4-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-09-13 183 Jerry Jackson 254 0-0-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-08-30 184¼ Jimmy Weeks 190 0-0-0 Phil Muscato 180 55-20-0 Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 5 1949-12-02 181 Pat Richards 187 20-5-5 Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA W KO 2 1949-11-07 185½ Joe Domonic 190¼ 18-10-0 Manny Almeda Auditorium, Providence, RI, USA W KO 2 1949-10-10 180¼ Ted Lowry 177¾ 56-46-8 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1949-09-26 179¾ Tommy Giorgio 183¾ 9-9-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 4 1949-08-16 184 Pete Louthis 23-12-3 New Bedford, MA, USA W KO 3 1949-07-18 184½ Harry Haft 174¾ 11-6-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-05-23 181¼ Don Mogard 187¼ 15-8-0 Providence, RI, USA W UD 10 1949-05-02 183 Jimmy Evans 181 18-7-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-04-11 183 James Walls 190¼ 9-13-1 Providence, RI, USA W KO 3 1949-03-28 182¼ Artie Donato 201¾ 7-5-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1949-03-21 183 Johnny Pretzie 7-6-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 5 1948-12-14 180 Gilley Ferron 0-2-0 Convention Hall, Philadelphia, PA, USA W KO 2 1948-11-29 185 Patrick (Red) Connolly 213 8-5-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-10-04 178 Bob Jefferson 172 0-2-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 2 1948-09-30 179 Gilbert Cardone 189 0-1-0 Washington, DC, USA W KO 1 1948-09-20 182 Bill Hardeman 206½ 0-4-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-09-13 183 Jerry Jackson 254 0-0-0 Providence, RI, USA W KO 1 1948-08-30 184¼ Jimmy Weeks 190 0-0-0 Man are you crazy hasim rahman is a great fight! he is 6'4 with a jab (did you watchj tua fight) This man is going to be somebody and comeon what year was you born? Do you think LaStarza, Layne and Matthews Would beat lewis! COME ON MAN! lewis is a great fighter!!!! Stop making him to be bad this man got a jab and he is tall and strong its no way IN HELL those fighters beat lewis! MARCIANO Can beat lewis! Marciano woul have got cuts all over his face (lewis is good a that!) And he would not be able to use his left due to lewis height! This is not dempsy who fought taller fighter this is marciano! Man for real i dont know if lewis did not sign you autograph or what but lewis is not a bum! e is a great fighter. Marciano is not a bum he is a good fighter. But he is too slow and short to get to lewis! Mike tyson who is fast could not even get to lewis! The guy you naming mcall who knocked lewis out , in the rematch lewis won! yeah lewis have a habbit of taking fighter lightly but no way LaStarza, Layne and Matthews beats lewis! come on man i dont kno if your stuck in the 50's or what but your Just talking not doing research! Marciano was a good fighter in a bad era and made Great results. Rocky had the biggest heart all time! he always am into fihts In his best shaped never took a fighter lightly thats is why he never lost! but put him in the 70's vs ken norton, ali, frazier, foreman,Earnie Shavers,Floyd Patterson(This fight could have happend) I think oatterson would have won,Sonny Liston,Ingemar Johansson ( I love this guy!!!) i dont think he would be unbeaten or lets put him in the 90's! Holyfield, Reddick bowe, Mike tyson, Buster doulas,Lennox Lewis Vitali Klitschko,Wladimir Klitschko,Ike Ibeabuchi,david tua. Ok Lets see how he o in the 30's? Max Baer,Primo Carnera,Roy Lazer,Max Schmeling,Nathan Mann,John Henry Lewis,Arturo Godoy( I like this guy) Ok lets do the 1910,1920 (the last one) Gene Tunney,Georges Carpentier,Bill (KO) Brennan,Jack Johnson, James J. Jeffries,Tommy Burns(I think marciano wins easy but i like this guy) Sam Langford . Whats my point? Ok as i lookat this list of men Good and great fighter i named from diffrent era's i say wow i dont think rocky marciano could beat 75% of these fighter! But when i say loe jouis i say hmm i think joe can beat 80% of these fighters! That what makes joe great and rocky good! Lets say jack dempsey i would say i think he can beat 70% of these fighters, ali I think he can beat 90% of these fighter the list goes on and on! Thats why i say marciano was a good fighter in a bad era! He is simply to slow!

08-08-2003, 12:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
BrocktonBlockBuster Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 280	Mark,good stuff you posted about Rocky's power.

08-08-2003, 01:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	no please post dont think your going to hurt my feelings! Trust me i dont care what some man/woman have to say about me. Unless its my girlfriend or Grandfather. (dont really care what my girl thinks either)

08-08-2003, 03:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
ChampMan Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Melbourne,FL Posts: 363	hey wildhawke11, seems like we have had this conversation with our young HW knockout artist erick before.... __________________ http://burrowsleague.com/BLBWeb.html

08-08-2003, 05:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Wild i read what you said and came up with this. In a desprate come back win i know what i have o do, I have to have a ko post! Ali fought moore 7 years after moore fought rocky, You are right! But moore career is based on louis ,moore and jersy fight. If you ask the normal person what was ali best fights they would say frazier , foreman,norton, liston! My point? No one based ali greatness on the old moore! and everyone is quick to say well marciano beated moore! I beleive if ali fought from 1948-1955 He would have dominated not one person from that time was as big and quick as he was. Now wild im not saying rocky not in my top ten! he is he is in my top 5, but when the guy keep acting like lewis is junk then i have to remind him of other people who fought nobody's But was still good/great fighters! Wild i know you love the rock from all he over came and all he gave to the sport, and you want that to be known! I understand that really. But if someone make it like lewis fought nothing but old fighter and bums And people who been in wars. Well then i have to say if your going to judg lewis this way then judge marciano this way too1 Because thats all he fought! Is it lewis fault that everyone is old in boxing today? or thecompitition is not like it was in the 0's or 90's no and was it rocky fualt? No! But if you judg lewis this way then you have to judge rocky too. thats all im saying. im not here saying well i dont likethe rock! No when The guy keep sayin please dont mention lewis name with marciano, like marciano is so much greater then him then thats when i have to say hey man, marciano Was in lewis same situation, The only diffrence is rocky had a better smile then lewis! Im not trying to take anything away from the rock, but lewis and the rock where in similar situations! WILD, give me a honest answer do you think the rock would do good in the 90's, 70's, 30,s 1910-1920,s? Im asking you that and im asking the same for ali. Give me your honest answer, Dont judge because you like one better just them as fighters nothing else. a reason would be nice too.

08-08-2003, 08:38 PM	#17 (permalink)
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,834	When we first started talking about Rocky Marciano you more or less thought he was only average, because you figured his competition was weak. Then after a few postings and cross postings from us both and i might add with some knowledgeable help from the other posters you moved him into the lower top 10 Now i note from your last posting he has now jumped to number 5 If we continue to debate on Rocky Hell he might make the No 1 Position LOL Eric i do have to say this " I sometimes wonder who on here you discuss Rocky Marciano with because i my self feel your over rating a very average fighter " LOL Sorry Eric but i could not resist that last comment of mine. Only Joking. Maybe after i have had a coffee i might give you a serious answer my friend. Last edited by wildhawke11 : 08-09-2003 at 12:36 AM.

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