My meaningless 2 cents on the game

[Antonin]

OK, I finally got the game.

I'm astounded. Great, great work. Even without the roleplaying option--the ability to create a stable of fighters and guide their careers--this is just an amazing game. You can fight an almost limitless number of fights, and that's just with the fighters that are current (meaning, not from the retired group).

Compared to a lot of you guys I don't know much about currently active fighters. I just simmed a number of fights in the HW, MW and LW classes to get ratings. Then, I've just staged fights between guys on generally the same level--1 rated vs 1 rated, 6 vs 6 and so on. I also read articles in The Ring and on boxrec.com to see who's mouthing off about whom in deciding what fights to sim. I've had some very, very exciting bouts. Not "knowing" the fighters the way many of you guys do, the fights are even more exciting. I've also created some fighters using names from the random name generator website, just for the heck of it, and fought a number of bouts with them just for fun. I have a guy named Delbert Craw and--well, let's just say I'm having a blast fighting him.

I hope some of you more knowledgeable guys will post some guidelines on creating fighters. I've read the manual, but the explanation of the ratings is not much help. I don't want to create supermen, just some slightly better than average "journeymen" (can somebody please define that term?) to use in my boxing universe. Perhaps somebody can name some slightly better than average fighters to use as templates for created fighters.

I really would love to see a random fighter generator included with a patch. It would be great to be able to create a random fighter and then "just see" how well he would do against the RL fighters that are included with the game.

It also would be nice to be able to create a golden age group and have only members of that group show up in the rankings.

The sounds are great, but I would prefer a different sound for punches landing.

This is a wonderful game, even without the roleplaying element. Thank you to the Trunzos and to all of the people who were involved in the research, programming and playtesting.

Amazing. And I haven't even explored all the weight classes yet.

For this game to really be successful, it needs to attract people like me, people who don't follow the sweet science all that closely but love stats and management-type sims. I really hope that happens. You guys (meaning the Trunzos) deserve to make a truck load of money from this game.

[wildhawke11]

Antonin
I am so pleased you managed to get the game and are enjoying it. But i don't feel Jim and Co will make a truckload of money out of a boxing game, as its not a major sport today.

They i feel sure made it for the very same reason they produced the best boxing board game ever *Title Bout* because they are in love with boxing.
Best way to repay Jim, Tom, Andreas and Co is to spread the word around about how you feel about the game to your friends and others, therefore helping to make this game a successful venture for them.
Cheers my boxing friend

[Kevin]

Antonin:

Good comments. This game has the potential to bring more fans to the sport. I follow boxing very little in real life, but I'm having a great time with this game. In time, it could be similar to CM through spurring interest in the sport because of the quality of the game.

With the huge number of fighters, this has the ability to easily keep my attention for a number of months and build the anticipation of the career mode.

[Antonin]

Originally posted by wildhawke11
...But i don't feel Jim and Co will make a truckload of money out of a boxing game, as its not a major sport today.

Yeah, I keep forgetting...this isn't one of those "punch a guy and watch his head explode like a tomato" types of arcade monstrosities (haha).

Still, like Kevin said above, maybe it will spark interest in the sport. I've been only a fringe follower of boxing since I first noticed the sport in the late 1960s. I know a few current heavyweights, but for the most part I've just paid casual attention to the "big moments" and the "big names" in boxing history. Over the last few months, though, I've been watching stuff like "Friday Night Fights" and doing some reading, and now with this game I've been researching more and more names. In another thread, a bunch of guys are discussing "obscure" HWs and MWs, and that's been utterly fascinating to me, moreso than the "big names."

From the comments I've read here many of you guys who are very knowlegeable about boxing love this game. It would be great if more people like me who know a lot less and would like to know more hear about it and buy it. Maybe it will never be a blockbuster, but the developers have done good work and should earn a few bob from it.

[crusadecat]

I Believe that Boxing needs many things to have significance on the major sports scene. Even rabid sports fans can't name more than 5 current fighters 10 if they are very good. When I talk to my fellow sports fans and I mention Boxing as my favorite sport they tend to put it somewhere between Wrestling and Toughguy contests. This game can have the effect of making people interested in Boxing into true fans which this sport needs. Give us a National Commision with standards, get rid of the meaningless alphabet organizations and titles and bring it back to each division having 1 champ. Look at the Refs, promoters, judges, fighters, trainers, managers etc more carefully. Yank the ones who are being paid off. Those would be a good start, obviously there is more that needs to be done ... but thats for another time and post. Like Baseball , Boxing has a rich history it needs to embrace and these would be the way to bring some of the people who left boxing back to the sport.

[Drood]

I'm debating buying the game. Wish there was a demo. If it's based on the Avalon Hill game I'm very intrigued since I've almost bought that game twice.

The problem with boxing as a sport today is the huge non-event PPV bouts. They've tarnished the sport IMO. I'm big into UFC and stuff like that, but when you get a big fight you pay $80 for where one guy bites the others ear off.... Just makes a mockery of the whole thing.

Big fan of OOTP and Championship Manager, plus other sims like Hockey League Sim etc... Not sure whether to bite the bullet and buy Title Bout or not...

[crusadecat]

Yes it is based on the Avalon Hill game. I was introduced to that version by my father and his friends and became fascinated by the biographies on the back. I think you'd like this version, stays faithful to the original and you can almost imagine checking for CF and consulting the Ko charts etc.

[Speck]

Hi Drood. I've been playing OOTP (since version 3) and Championship Manager (for almost 10 years) and the TBCB sim engine certainly stands up well against them, but TBCB is less confining than either OOTP or CM.

I still think CM is the most ambitious sports sim ever created, but you also have to live within the rules of FIFA, UEFA, English FA, etc (at least as accurately as SI could make them .) TBCB allows you to make your own rules and run your boxing universe as you see fit, with the game handling the statistics and rankings. It's pretty open ended.

Speck

[wildhawke11]

Originally posted by Speck
Hi Drood. I've been playing OOTP (since version 3) and Championship Manager (for almost 10 years) and the TBCB sim engine certainly stands up well against them, but TBCB is less confining than either OOTP or CM.

I still think CM is the most ambitious sports sim ever created, but you also have to live within the rules of FIFA, UEFA, English FA, etc (at least as accurately as SI could make them .) TBCB allows you to make your own rules and run your boxing universe as you see fit, with the game handling the statistics and rankings. It's pretty open ended.

Speck

Agree 100%

Speck
Hell i never knew you was a CM3 or CM4 fan LOL

I had all of them at one time. Just think two boys in there back bedroom both lovers of the soccer game stuck to there belief and went on to make the best selling sports simulation of all time.
Way To Go aint it.

Have to admit i have not as yet played the latest release its under my computer table. In some ways i feel the later versions took some of the fun factor and play-ability from the game for some people.

One of the problems i feel is with realism, you can go to deep and take the fun factor out of a game.

Because in truth managing a soccer club is not fun, its stressful and hard work and in fact a lot of the things you have to get involved in can be pretty boring.

That's why i said up to a point, as you know you must strive for realism but never lose sight of the fact it still has to be fun to play.
Or BANG down go the sales.

Sorry to bore you Boxing Lovers over one of our silly English soccer games. But at the same time what i have mentioned could apply to any game. So maybe some of my points are of value to OOTP.

[Antonin]

Originally posted by Speck
Hi Drood. I've been playing OOTP (since version 3) and Championship Manager (for almost 10 years) and the TBCB sim engine certainly stands up well against them, but TBCB is less confining than either OOTP or CM.

I still think CM is the most ambitious sports sim ever created, but you also have to live within the rules of FIFA, UEFA, English FA, etc (at least as accurately as SI could make them .) TBCB allows you to make your own rules and run your boxing universe as you see fit, with the game handling the statistics and rankings. It's pretty open ended.

Speck

I have been playing the 01/02 version of CM for a couple of years and agree that it's a great game. I love soccer, what little of it there is on non-pay-per-view TV.

This past summer I asked in several soccer gaming forums why somebody has not done for soccer what OOTP did for baseball: allow you to create your own management universe with your own league structure, fictional players, etc.

The most frequent answer I got, when somebody bothered to reply, was essentially "We do it this way (with pre-set leagues and teams and real players) because we've always done it this way." To me, that's sad.

OOTP lets me create my own baseball universe.

TBCB lets me create my own boxing universe.

I want to do the same in soccer.

[Drood]

I am very intrigued by Title Bout. As I said, I've looked at the original Avalon Hill game a few times and thought "Hmm..." (in my never ending quest to find a decent tabletop sports game. Sadly, Strat-o-Matic has always been out of my price range).

As for OOTP, I've played 3 and 4. Tried the demo of 5 but it didn't add enough that I felt was worth upgrading for. (And my favourite util, Ryan's DB util you just feed the HTML too, doesn't work with OOTP 5, and I can't live without that)

As for CM, I've played every version, right back to the original Amiga version. The 01/02 one is the best IMO. CM4 didn't feel right. My limited experience with 03/04 shows it to be good, but not great. Time will tell.

Sadly, SI and Eidos have split, so future Championship Manager games will NOT be done by SI, but in-house at Eidos, so for all intents and purposes, CM as we know it is dead.

I consider a sign that, last night, I flipped on a sports channel and saw Buster Douglas vs Mike Tyson... Whether it's a sign saying I should or shouldn't buy the game, I don't know. I mean the last boxing match I got psyched for was back when Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank had their big rivalary. (Are they in the game incidentally?)

[wildhawke11]

Both
Nigel and Chris are in the game.

Its more of a simulation game then a roleplay if that helps.

[Drood]

Sims are good And it would be fun to reenact the wars Benn and Eubank had.

[Speck]

Originally posted by wildhawke11
Agree 100%

Speck
Hell i never knew you was a CM3 or CM4 fan LOL

I had all of them at one time. Just think two boys in there back bedroom both lovers of the soccer game stuck to there belief and went on to make the best selling sports simulation of all time.
Way To Go aint it.

Have to admit i have not as yet played the latest release its under my computer table. In some ways i feel the later versions took some of the fun factor and play-ability from the game for some people.

Not to beat CM4 up too much, but I'm in the same boat with you and Drood. I'm not sure if I'm just bored of that style of sim or if something (the fun factor) is missing from the earlier versions. Hopefully they can rebound next year with their new game (the SI guys own the CM code, but Eidos owns the name.)

Speck

[Drood]

I think CM4 was just a dog. A LOT of people were in the same boat and hated it. A friend has 03/04. He gave up on CM4 and did "other things" but bought 03/04 on a whim and seems to think it's far better.

It's not being bored of those particular games, when I nuked CM4 I immediately put 01/02 back on my system. The game is a classic. CM4 was just the first ever bad iteration of the game. I'm wondering if something was afoot with Eidos at the time and that's why the game was a bit of a mess. Something relating to the split. I dunno. If I ever spend more time with 03/04 I'll let you know if it's improved

[Boxingnut]

Having played all the versions of CM since the Amiga I can honestly say that CM 03/04 is far better than CM4. This is what the first version of CM4 should have been like.

You can reset all the players names to fantasy ones if you want to play the game a little differently, a little less structured.

[Drood]

I don't like doing the fantasy route though with the players. I like digging up that South American gem then trying to track them down in the real world and see what they really look like, how they play etc... (Pablo Zegarra was my golden boy in CM01/02).