Tyson vs Larry Holmes

[Boxingnut]

Since we're correcting my spelling, I'm not from England, but is the quote below from boxingnut correct grammer? [/B][/QUOTE]




Care go to into specifics?? Looks fine to me.

[darthpb]

Dempsonny. he is underrated in the "mainstream," not here where we are presumably more hardcore boxing fans than the mainstream.

[darthpb]

P.S. we're getting a little petty now...let's stick to BOXING!!!

[PittPanther]

I believe that he is using "nonsense" in a correct fashion. In this case it is being used as a noun, and therefore, I believe (could be wrong) using the article "a" before it is perfectly acceptable.

Although, I guess he doesn't really need that article anyway.

[wildhawke11]

Panther -- your a great guy LOL
but *let sleeping dogs lie*
If it all boils down to spoken english, i must be bottom of the class. But then again i am Irish guys

Holmes went for Rocks record very close he came
But in the end it was all in vain
So Holmes my friend be content with your career
If you had met Marciano you would have been out on your ear
As for making that remark about Marciano carrying your jock
He would have threw a left to your chin then a right to your cxxk
To finish behind Marciano is no disgrace and no crime
Remember 49 tried to beat him but they lost all the time

Only joking Guys please don't take it personal

[dempsonny]

Wildhawke,
That was great, did you write it yourself?

Darth,

He is so called "underrated" by many boxing writers and historians who share my view.

[darthpb]

I am outta here...

[PittPanther]

In all honesty, Holmes is a very enigmatic fighter to rate.

[wildhawke11]

Dempsey and Panther
Well, unless my wife has suddenly taken an interest in the fight game and has been coming to this forum ummmm yes i did.

Mind you i don't think our friend Darth was to impressed.

If you look back on the history of boxing in the HW division and think of how many fighters there have been it that division it must run into thousands, so even being rated at number 50 is in truth nothing to be scorned at. Some times i think we are inclined to overlook that fact.
When we casually say "he does not make my top 10 or 20"

[darthpb]

Originally posted by wildhawke11
Dempsey and Panther
Well, unless my wife has suddenly taken an interest in the fight game and has been coming to this forum ummmm yes i did.

Mind you i don't think our friend Darth was to impressed.

If you look back on the history of boxing in the HW division and think of how many fighters there have been it that division it must run into thousands, so even being rated at number 50 is in truth nothing to be scorned at. Some times i think we are inclined to overlook that fact.
When we casually say "he does not make my top 10 or 20"

wildhawke, that's a damn good point you make; however, let me sum up my belief of the present versus the past...today's athletes are BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER, of this no one can deny...old school fighters might have been "tough guys" but I don't believe they compare favorably to todays athlete; therefore, I give more credence to the more modern fighters for the aforementioned reasons...the Rock was great but, please, don't tell me he would be undefeated today...it's like the old adage says, "A good big man beats a good little man."

[Cap]

This is a very old and, frankly, tiresome argument. As all of the old fighters are now dead, nothing can be proven either way. The bigger, stronger mantra means nothing. There have been plenty of big, strong men in boxing. Some were good, and many, like the lardbuckets around today, were just inept. If a 180 pound guy can bust a jawbone with one punch, it don't matter how much tonnage is attached to it.

We're not talking about the average heavyweight of fifty or seventy years ago. We're talking about a select few, the elite of their generations. A hundred years from now, if people still talk about boxing, they won't mention John Ruiz or Michael Dokes. If they mention anyone after Muhammad Ali, it'll likely be Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis. In this same way, boxing fans venerate the names of Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis and a few others. They were the best of the best; near perfect fighting machines.

If it were possible, I'd match the old timers against today's herd and .....

Wait a minute. It is possible. We've got TBCB to let us do that very thing. Let the battles begin!

Cap

[PittPanther]

I would say guys like Zale, who worked in steel mills before fighting, and say Greb, also a blue collar guy (literally) would be much stronger than their modern day counterparts. I don't care how much fancy equipment they train on. . .it just aint the same.

[dempsonny]

Wilde, CAP and Pitt........ Bingo.
Darth,
Some more on the faster, bigger, stronger. When the Tampa Bay Bucs were 1-15 some sportswriters were saying that they would have been able to beat the 1967 Green Bay Packers because of that, which to me is nonsense.
Also going back to what Wildhawke is saying, yes I most definately think there were 50 HW's since the 1890's that were better than Holmes. My statement is not so outlandish.

Gus

[darthpb]

Okay, so Babe Ruth would hit .360 and steal bases today...Cy Young would win 511 games today, too...come on...when was the last white HVY champ? Think maybe the pool was diluted a bit?

[PittPanther]

You can't compare baseball to boxing. . .baseball has in fact changed, boxing is still essentially the same sport it has been.

It's like comparing apples and oranges.

[darthpb]

Originally posted by PittPanther
You can't compare baseball to boxing. . .baseball has in fact changed, boxing is still essentially the same sport it has been.

It's like comparing apples and oranges.

You can compare athletes to athletes and today's athletes are, I repeat, BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER...you also can compare body size, mass, strength and, again ... ow, forget it!!!

[swampdragon]

But hasn't the pool of great athletes been diluted in the case of boxing in the last 30 years or so. A much lower percentage of your top athletes go into boxing, because they now have football and basketball. Instead of being in the gyms, they are on the streets learning those sports. Why box if you are strong and fast enough to be an NFL linebacker? Boxing and baseball are the two sports where it's actually possible to say that the old timers were as good as the modern players. You can't seriously argue that Bob Cousy was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan. You can say that Joe Louis was better than Lennox Lewis or Ken Norton, and most historians will agree with you. It's because of the talent dilution.

[wildhawke11]

Darth
I have spent many years as a lover of the fight game right from the days of Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson etc etc. I have seen them come and go Good, Bad and Indifferent.

In days gone by even before my time in fact, there was very little chance for the average person to make his way in sports. One of the only way for them to do that was to fight, In fact many young men took up boxing just to put food on the table for their family.
When your hungry and a few dollars can be made by winning fights it make you pretty keen to learn and keep winning, in most cases they gave all they had in the ring.

If you check some of the old timers records out, yes you will see some losses on their record sheets, but often many of then did not fight as amateurs and learned their trade from and served their apprenticeship learning the hard way. As i just said you will see some losses on their records but when your in action at least twice a month law of averages says you have to lose some. But the main thing is they learned against all types of fighters, and differing styles. those who came through and learned their trade they became a force to be reckoned with.

There was so much more competition then in the fight game and as i have stated many times only 8 world Championship belts to be won.

To be quite honest there are many young men in others sports today who might bring some excitement and talent back into the HW division, The problem is most of the guys who could do that are as i just said *in others sports* So the kickback is the guys who are not athletic enough to complete or do well in those well paid other sports turn to boxing. Hence the unbalanced in most cases overweight guys we see completing in the Big Heavy weight class today.

That's one of the reasons why we have so few decent white or black fighters today. Why get your head fuxxked up in a boxing ring when if you have any sort of athletic ability you can earn a good living in another sport.

[wildhawke11]

Swamp

You beat me to it

[swampdragon]

Danny,

What can I say but that great minds think alike?