Tyson vs Larry Holmes
 

i dont have the game yet....

but can some one that has the game do tyson in his prime years vs Larry Holmes in his prime year...who wins in 10 bouts?

thanks

Larry Holmes vs Mike Tyson - Summary over 100 fights

Prefight Analysis
Holmes has a Control Factor of 11 vs a Boxer, and a Control Factor of 12 vs a Slugger.
Condition: Top Condition
Career Stage: Prime
Tyson, a Slugger, has a Control Factor of 8 vs a Boxer, and a Control Factor of 10 vs a Slugger.
Condition: Top Condition
Career Stage: Prime

This is not a title bout, Three KD Rule is in effect, Save by the bell only in last round, referee or doctor can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is not in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 4/Scorecard after 4, game will check for injuries, game will adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'none', Scoring System is 10 Point
Larry Holmes - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Conduct Conditioning Check - Trainer: <Generic Offense> - Cutman: <Generic Cut Man>
Mike Tyson - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Conduct Conditioning Check - Trainer: <Generic Offense> - Cutman: <Generic Cut Man>

Bout Results Repeats
Larry Holmes vs Mike Tyson 78-21-1 100

Holmes won 78.00% of the matches.
Average rounds for wins: 10.38
Decisions: 21
Unanimous Decisions: 20
Majority Decisions: 1
Stoppages: 57
Knockouts: 11
Technical Knockouts: 46
Referee's Decision: 23
Due to Swelling: 14
Due to Cuts: 2
Due to Disqualification: 1
Due to 3 Knockdowns: 6


Tyson won 21.00% of the matches.
Average rounds for wins: 8.67
Decisions: 3
Unanimous Decisions: 2
Majority Decisions: 1
Stoppages: 18
Knockouts: 6
Technical Knockouts: 12
Referee's Decision: 8
Due to Swelling: 2
Due to Cuts: 2
1.00% of the matches have been draws.
Average number of rounds: 10.07

thank you so much..larry holmes was a favorite of mine in the 80's for heavy weight///

Danny--

Did you use the current Tyson?

Panther

No i used the retired one, but with the original ratings

I myself for my game will be giving the young prime Tyson better ratings.
For me anyway he was a lot better in his young years then he is now given credit for.

At his peak Tyson was the most devastating 3 round fighter ever in the Heavyweight division, and for 5 rounds at least would have been a danger to any or most of the all time greats.
To beat the young Tyson you would have needed to back him up and about one of the only fighters i can see doing that is Sonny Liston with that great powerful jab

Louis had a very accurate jab but i don't feel it was powerful enough to back the young Tyson up
I am not saying Tyson would have beat Louis its a maybe, but even Louis himself admitted he had one big weakness that not many knew about, he never liked an opponent who pressured him.

In all honesty Louis never had a dangerous killer like the young Tyson in front of him. I love Joe Louis but i have to be honest in my feelings my friend

Some say Tyson could not take a real hard punch there 100% wrong

Think the Lewis fight the punches a shot Tyson was hit with, or that once in a lifetime perfect punch that Buster Douglas threw. against a less then peak Tyson

Them punches would have put Dempsey or Marciano down.
Tyson still was not unconscious and still tried to regain his feet he was pretty tough take it from me.

I think what really annoys boxing lovers with Mike Tyson is the fact he promised so much then wasted it, and we will never forgive him for that.
I mean right now, he is a shot fighter, but still after all this time his name only has to be mentioned and we all look up still.

They say he made his name of bums no worse then Louis Ali Dempsey or any other fighter early opponents.

By the time he moved up to take on even Douglas and Tucker the bobbing weaving hungry Tyson was a thing of the past. he had found other pleasures in life besides fighting and it all went to his head.
Don't i ramble on my friend but i love the Fight Game.
Danny :)

I only wonder how things would have turned out if Tyson's trainer and mentor Cus Damato had not died. Once that happened the vultures of boxing moved in for the kill and made lots of money but there was no one to guide Tyson the way Damato did. I can remember a couple of fights where Tyson was almost like a limbo dancer, he got so low to avoid the blows it was unbelievable! He still has the punch but, like in the Lewis fight, now he tries to take 50 to the head to get 1 of his own in. I don't care how tough you are-ain't no one can win that way! Good defence, swift hands and a devastating punch second to none made the young Damato trained Tyson a formidable foe for anyone past and present.

I totally agree. I think people forget how goood tyson was. In his younger days he was the most fearsome fighter I have ever seen. I wish Cus hadn't died. It makes me wonder what the division would be like now.

I totally disagree...people have forgot how good Tyson was? Why do you think we still care about him, it certainly isn't based on the Tyson of the past 10 years...He still makes BIG cash...all based on the past. I'm thinking you don't realize how good Holmes was...Probably the most underrated, LEGITIMATE Hvy champ ever...

Darth

With all respect meant i don't understand your remarks in regard to Larry Holmes
No one here has said anything bad about him
So what makes you think we underrate Holmes.
All we are saying is that Tyson at his peak was a force to be reckoned with, are you disagreeing with our views on that.

My own personal opinion is that Tyson v Holmes both at peak
would be a lot closer then the 72 wins out of a 100 fights which using the pre-set ratings that comes with the game gives Holmes so many wins over Tyson both at peak.

People keep saying that when Tyson stepped up a class he got disheartened if things did not go his way. Yes, on that i will agree.

But we are talking the young Tyson who Gus D'Amato had wisely used Tyson's ruthlessness and killer instincts and burning hatred that he had inside him ,where it should be used correctly, and of course that is, in a boxing ring.

The only way i feel to have kept Tyson on track would have been a guy he had full respect for. The way to do that i feel would have
been to never criticise him in front of others because all that would do is get his back up and he would not respond. No young man likes to be made a fool of or disrespected in front of an audience.

The way to handle someone like Mike is to get him alone tell him if he fully commits himself to training and conditioning himself he could turn out to be the greatest heavyweight the world has ever seen.

Then explain to him but to achieve this once in the gym you are the boss and will stand no nonsense of any sort.
But then smile at Tyson and let him know that outside the gym you know of course he could take your head off if he wished.

The point i am trying to make is the fighter your training has to have full respect for you. or its a no win situation for you both.

wildhawke11,

Dude, my comments were more directed towards my frustration at Tyson and what he did to himself than anything else.
I didn't mean "you" underrate Holmes meaning the posts here -- I actually think we're all pretty knowledgeable and polite here -- I mean in general...Tyson was a beast, the ultimate fighting machine, no question about it but I'm 38 and I watched Holmes's career and it was only afterwards that I realized what a "pro" he was. He was never loved or feared yet all he did was win. Tyson is STILL a draw yet he hasn't won a big fight in what, 10 years? I like Tyson, maybe I came off wrong in that but I do; however, what we've seen now makes me believe Holmes would have beaten him, Ali would have killed him, and his place in history is tarnished now that we have seen how to beat him. In Tyson's first few years I never thought that. I thought he was the most devastating fighter I had ever seen; however, he has been exposed as a bully, through and through. All I really want is a little "cred" for Holmes in the mainstream...that's all I meant...

darthpb,
OK someone started me up on my #1 over rated fighter of all time, the Easton Assassin Larry Holmes. All he did was win except when he lost and they gave him the fight ala Williams and Witherspoon. He was also responsible for making names out of nobodies like Renaldo "Mr" Snipes who dropped Holmes and had him on queer street but couldn't finish him because he just wasn't good enough. He was outboxed by a frightened Gerry Cooney who for some reason didn't want to throw his left hook and finally got hit by Holmes, circled the ring running away from him and dropped to the mat.
Holmes also ducked Coetzee, Page, Dokes, and Tate. I don't think the result of his fight with Tyson would of had much of a different result had Holmes been in his prime either.
Some of my Holmes ratings are;
CF B/S 10/10
HP 7
KDR 3
REC 1
KOR 2
TKO 2
CUT 1
PL 43
CP 44


Gus

The left hook is most often thrown to counter a jab. Holmes' jab was legend. Cooney just didn't have the hand speed to utilize the hook effectively. Cooney always had trouble with movers. Come to think of it slow footed sluggers also gave him trouble. The knockout by Foreman was almost like a slow motion replay as it happened. Spinks gave up something like 40 pounds to Cooney and still had the power to destroy him inside of 5 rounds. Cooney was just overmatched, not scared. Holmes should be a top 10 heavy. Maybe he didn't fight Page but Page was stinking up the ring against fighters Holmes would have breezed against. Page had prime losses to Berbick, Witherspoon and <choke> David Bey. Coetzee? Seriously? Isn't he from Sloth Africa? Dokes would have given him a good fight, but the man wouldn't stay active enough to merit a shot at Holmes. He wins a cut shortened decision against Cobb for a paper title, then goes away for over 2 years. The only guy ducking Dokes was Dokes. And finally Tate wouldn't have lasted through even 1 of those overhand rights. I have a 23 year old Titlebout card of Tate and he's rated 10 overall!!! Used to occasionally beat the likes of Ali and Frazier with that card. Holmes gets a bad rap but I can still remember that magnificent jab thrown with a snarl nastier than Tyson. Holmes had heart too, getting off the canvas several times to stop world class opposition.

Cube

Dempsonny

As I stated in an earlier post Holmes did NOT duck Coetzee. He signed to fight him but the fight was scrapped because the rookie promoters could not up with the money guarantees. The fight was scheduled for June 1984 and I have magazine pictures of Holmes and Coetzee posing together with those oversize giant gloves once so beloved of Don King promotions (although King had nothing to do with the promotion)
Saying Holmes ducked Coetzee is like saying Dempsey ducked Wills. Unfair and untrue.

Dempsonny, sorry, it looks like you're in the minority here...I'm glad to see some Holmes supporters...like I said, he's one of the most underrated HVY champs ever!!!

dempsonny, I just read your last post again and, please, he won except for when he lost!!! How about Ali vs. Norton? Could have lost all three but he DIDN'T...There are a million controversial decisions in history, so what? Holmes beat everyone over a long period of time...Tyson scared half of his opponents before the bout started. Once we saw the formula to beat him he never adapted...Great puncher but NOT a better champ than Holmes and I think the game illustrates that perfectly...

can someone simulate a bout larry homes vs lenniox lewis...when both in there prime.....do like 100 bouts thanks..

JB
Why not just order the game its well worth the money, if your interested in boxing in anyway.
You have heard nearly all say it is a great game go on take a chance :)

On the other hand you could always pop over and visit me in UK England and check my game out. Then i will take you up the local gym and give you a few rounds myself. Now it cant get anymore realistic then that --- can it :)

PS Hope your no bigger then 160 lb though or the deal is off LOL

thanks....i am close in buying this game so soon,,....


give me some ideas in what u do when u play this game....


thanks

Go to the forum marked
TBCB Inside the ropes

It will give you a good idea of what people are doing with the game.
Cheers
Danny

Here is why you think Holmes is so great and why I don't make him a top 50 HW based on my statement of WHO DID HE BEAT.
I'll take Holmes' opponents that were in the game and show you the quality of his opposition most of whom gave him a hard time.
Throw in the should have been losses to 'spoon and the truth and you'll see what I mean. Most of these fights you'll see is a prime Holmes;
Fighter Game rating comment
Isaac 2 dropped Holmes
Arrington 5
Shavers 7 past prime and dropped Holmes
Norton 9 past pime controversal (I gave the slight edge to Holmes, others didn't
Evangelista 4
Ocasio 5
Weaver 5 another tough fight for him
L Jones 5
LeDoux 4
Berbick 7 another tough fight
L Spinks 4
Snipes 7 dropped Holmes (I question the 7)
Cooney 5
Cobb 6
Witherspoon 8 like many I gave to Spoon
M Frazier 3
BC Smith 7
Bey 4
Williams 7 like many gave it to the Truth
These are the fights up to his two losses to Spinks and his anilation by Tyson
There are a few like Zanon and Rodriguez that are missing in this version but they're probably no better than 5's and they gave him a hard time.
Look it over it's why he should be a 9 not an 11 or 12.

Gus

To compare Holmes against how his title challengers are rated in TBCB is a nonsense and proves nothing.
Beating Norton, Shavers. Cooney, Berbick (twice), Weaver, Witherspoon, etc obviously means nothing then.
Holmes earned his title shot and then won the title in an epic fight. After that he defended successfully 16 times. In my book he most certainly is an all-time top10 heavy.
You obviously dislike Holmes so much that it renders your opinion as worthless.

The Norton fight was even going into the last round. Watch the 15th round and Holmes fights like his life is on the line. He pulls it out like all great champions. And he fought with a torn muscle in his left arm.
He then went on to equal Tommy Burns' record of eight successful defences inside the distance.
The Witherspoon fight, though close, is still won in my opinion by Holmes. People, in my opinion, think Witherspoon won because he did better than expected and the good ninth round for Witherspoon sticks in their memories.
I have the Williams fight on tape, and at the end Williams is asked by the interviewer whether he thinks he has won. There is a long pause before he says "Man, it was close.........it was close." So even he doesnt think he has won.
All long reigning champs are going to benefit from the decision in close fights. It happened to Ali and Louis. Holmes also suffered this way too, as Jim has already mentioned, in the first and second Spinks fights.
No-one who makes 20 defences is going to fight Godzilla every time. Again Louis and Ali had the odd challenger who was less then stellar.
Holmes, like Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney before him, suffered by following and beating one of the sports legends. I will remember his career as a clever boxer with one of the best left jabs of all the heavyweight champions.

Again, Norton, Shavers past prime.
Cooney, Berbick, Weaver, Witherspoon nothings-YES where are these guys, do any of them rate as top 50 HW's, NO not even top 100.
Holmes never beat a top 50 all time HW and almost always had trouble with mediocre HW's. That's all I'm saying.
He was a good HW who could beat average HW's with a lot of trouble.
Is he a top 10 HW, not even close.
Is he a decent human being, yes, good family man, probably better than most people associated in boxing. You never heard anything bad about Holmes and I greatly respect that about him. He was a good HW, better than average defence, showed heart when in trouble and had a suspect chin. I don't make him a top 10 or 20 HW of all time though.

And what "great" boxer did Tyson beat? Dude, you're losing...let it go...

HOLMES
 

Boxingnut as per your previous post you say Holmes beat Berbick twice? I only remember 1 meeting between the two back in April of 81 that went 15. When was the other?

Tyson destroyed the types and caliber of fighters that Holmes had trouble with, that's the difference. Look at what he did to Berbick. If you have any Holmes tapes look at him against Berbick, Snipes, Shavers and Norton. What do you think the outcome of an old Norton or Shavers would have been against the prime Tyson?

Losing the argument? I don't think so.

Let's look at some common opponents;
Marvis Frazier ;Tyson KO 1, Holmes TKO 1
Berbick: Tyson TKO 2, Holmes W 15
Ribalta: Tyson TKO 10, Holmes W 10
Bonecrusher Smith or should I say Bonehugger Smith who hugged Tyson to Lose a Dec. Holmes TKO 12 and TKO 8 Smith was 46 at the time.
Holyfield: Tyson L DSQ 3 (Cowardly Act) TKO by 11, Holmes L 12
M Spinks: Tyson KO 1, Holmes L 15, L15
Williams: Tyson TKO 1, Holmes W 15
Witherspoon, Tyson TKO 1, Holmes SD 12
Nielson: Tyson TKO 7, Holmes L 12
Pinklon Thomas: Tyson KO 6, Holmes Oh yea another HW I was reminded that Holmes avoided.
Of Course the head to head clash between Tyson and Holmes, I agree shouldn't count because of Holmes age but no one has been able to do that to Holmes even years later. I don't think the result would have been much different even in a prime Holmes.

Let me follow this argument by saying I like Holmes the man much better then Tyson the man so I have no axe to grind. Tyson is a low life Holmes has proven to be a gentleman even after his Marciano remark for which he apologized. My comparison is only between the ropes.

Gus

What great fighters did Joe Louis beat? Schmeling was the best by far and he was 1 and 1 against Joe. Walcott was good and he easily won their first fight, though he was jobbed out of the decision.

However, I don't think anyone would deny that Louis was one of the best heavies.

60's fan, you make a strong point. They can only fight who is available to them.

Let's see who did Louis beat.
Both Baer's, Pastor, Uzcudun, Sharkey, Mann, John Henry Lewis, Simon, Conn, Nova.
Oh yea John Henry Lewis and Conn were great LH's coming up, those should have been easy victories right ?

dempsonny, but every "common" opponent you named was in their prime when Holmes fought them except for Neilson where, really, come on, Holmes was approaching 50 so I don't know why you threw that in...Holmes was clearly vulnerable to a flash knockdown but how'd those fights work out? On the other hand, when did Tyson ever overcome any adversity faced in the ring? Like most bullies he hit fast and hard until you hit back and then he fell apart, in more ways than one...No way he intimates Ali or Foreman, sorry, Liston either. Frazier because of his size would have had a problem with Tyson...Holmes was smart and crafty and would pop that jab all night...DECISION!!!!(unless he got nailed, lol)...

Ali, Liston, Foreman in their primes?
Ali gives Tyson a boxing lesson and KO's him in the late rounds.
Foreman, Tyson is taylor made for him because he is almost carbon copy of Frazier. Liston was feared more than a prime Tyson, his jab would have kept Tyson at bay and his power along with his strong chin would have overcome Tyson. Frazier, Tyson now that would be a great fight probably not lasting more than 7 rounds. Holmes chin would not have survived a Tyson onslaught and Tyson could finish you if he hurt you.
OK, this was all fun but it's keeping me away from my game. We can each decide these arguments in our own universes.

Re: HOLMES
 

I meant to say he beat Shavers twice and not Berbick (which is in fact a better result anyway). Obviously I am as good at counting as you are at spelling (anialation??? from your earlier post)

Funny how you say Norton and Shavers were post-prime when Holmes beat them yet when you mention Holmes losing to Spinks and Tyson you fail to mention that Holmes was past his prime too. Holmes was 38 and hadn't fought for almost two years when he lost to Tyson so this hardly proves your arguement.
Tyson knocking people out that Holmes decisions or stops late is down to styles. Holmes never was a big puncher but he beat Berbick when he was closer to his prime than when Tyson did.
And a suspect chin?? This is laughable. Watch the tape when Shavers knocks down Holmes and tell me how many other HW's would have gotten up from that. Certainly not Tyson. In a poll in the 90's Boxing Illustrated rated the hardest punchers pound-for-pound ever. Shavers was 7th. No disgrace there to be knocked down by him then. When Holmes was decked by Isaac he got up to knock him out in the very next round, like great fighters do.
Ali was knocked down by Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper, does that mean he had a suspect chin too?
Obviously nothing I say is going to convince you otherwise, we agree to disagree.

Both Baers - Hard hitters but very limited fighters.
Pastor, Uzcudun, Mann, Simon, Nova - Fringe contenders

Sharkey - Sometimes looked great, other times was a bum. A mental case.

Conn - great LH but only a fair heavy.

Lewis- great LH but almost blind when fought Louis.

I'm not saying that Joe Louis wasn't a great fighter. To the contrary, I think he was among the top 2 or 3 all time. But his opposition wasn't nearly as good as, say Ali's. However, I don't think that takes anything away from Joe. I feel the same way about Holmes.

I've been supporting Holmes heavily in this thread as very underrated...I think I everyone other than dempsonny agree. Now, to really stir the pot...Marciano was overrated...maybe not "overrated" but can we agree that today he would not be a HVY champ?

darth,

You must love stirring it!!!:)

I bet you could cause an arguement in an empty room!!!:)

Just kidding

Regards

At least the Rock won his World Championship fair and square in a time when we had only one true World Champion.
Not like today when an impostor like the Jones boy or such can run around declaring to all he is a HW World Champion.

Today with so many so called World Champions in any of the divisions and so many different belts to be won, its a question of you take your pick of the worst of them and go for that fight.

That is the reason that for me anyway it means nothing to say a fighter today has won 4 belts or indeed moved up a few lb to win another world title.

Now when Henry Armstrong held 3 and nearly made it 4 of the 8 Titles that were there to be won. That really was some achievement in my book.

My own feelings are that its an insult and degrades the meaning of the word Champion and i see it as an insult to the former past fighters who at least earned the right to be called *The World Champion*

lol...seriously though I'm really referring to his size, not the talent...

Darth
For You :)

Rocky Marciano A Real Champion.
Rocky Marciano a Champion both In and Out of the Ring

If winning fights is*ALL* that matters then there is only one Heavyweight in the picture
Has to be Rocky Marciano. 49 fights -- 49 wins -- 43 by KO

Of course we All know stats on paper don't give the full story.
Ali most feel holds that Crown, and arguable was the Best

I would love to have seen a fight between Marciano and Holmes,
both at there peak. On paper it looks like a Holmes victory. Most would say "Yes Larry is to big and has a great jab" !!!!!!
Till i whispered in the Rocks ear "Hey Champ this is the guy who said you were not fit enough to carry his jock strap"

That's all Marciano would need to put Holmes through more pain then any fighter has had to take to earn a win. Not sure then who my money would be on. Ohhhhh hell put my $$$$$ on the guy who never gave up, and walked through fire and brimstone to land his own blows

In a lot of ways he was a bit like the fighter in the Rocky Films, if you were going to beat him you had to be prepared to die to win. Once in that square jungle with the Rock. It was pain, pain and more pain to follow.

Many fighters who took on the Rock worked out he was clumsy, slow and had there game plan all worked out.

"I will keep him away with my strong jab, or tie him up when close. or make him miss with my boxing skills"
The reality was, once the fight started, they found out that he was not so slow, had power in EVERY blow he threw, and it was a total different ball game trying to fight the Rock then watching this squat figure from the safety of a ringside seat and dreaming they could take him.

No matter how much you hit him, or were ahead on points against this guy, He never stopped coming at you. He was losing against Joe Walcott going into the 13th round but once again the Rock did it as the song goes
---- "I Did it My Way"----

You know why people loved the Rock, it was because they could associate themselves with him, he did not look like our stereo type picture of a fighter, more like the average Joe in the street, short of build, craggy features, he was one of us. if you know what i mean.
He had not the speed of Clay, the accuracy of Joe Louis, or the film star looks of say a young Billy Conn, but he had the biggest Heart in the World it is true, i have heard guys say he would rather die then give up. That was our Rocky.

Unlike some he never disrespected any other fighter he took on, he just did the job in his own way, and went out with a true unbeaten 49 record win to show for his efforts.
What more can a man do to then be the Best of his era.

Maybe its time now to start judging the smaller old time Heavyweights such as Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney etc etc on a Pound for Pound basis but then still rank them say for example at number 4 in The All time Great Heavy List
rather then say would Jack Dempsey have beaten say Lewis. or the next 290 lb fighter that is sure to come one day. In the year 2075 they might well be saying how could little Ali have beaten our present 350lb World Champ.

They might knock you Rocky and criticise you in any way they like, but one thing no one can ever take away from you. Is that great unbeaten record you took to your grave.

I salute a real Champion * Rocky Marciano a real Man of the People*

Just something i knocked up in the Boxing Section Guys as a tribute to Rocky, some while back.
Danny

Nice post...but for the record all I meant is his size, or lack thereof, would prevent him from beating a lot of today's HVYs, not the talent level, just the size...

Do you think the rock never beat a big heavyweight. He punches harder and more often than any HW around today. The only thing that would hurt the Rock today is the earlier stoppages of cut fighters.
I don't think Max Baer was a limited fighter. He had all the tools, he could box and was one of the hardest hitters of all time. His problem was he didn't always train and take fights seriously.
Darth,
If everyone agrees with you and disagrees with me, as is the case, then why do you consider him underated. I say he's overated and everyone makes him a top 10 HW. Where is the under rating coming from?

Since we're correcting my spelling, I'm not from England, but is the quote below from boxingnut correct grammer?

Quote:

To compare Holmes against how his title challengers are rated in TBCB is a nonsense and proves nothing.