Gunboat Smith and Questions

[JCFLA]

I'm sure Gunboat Smith will be added shortly, but for those of you who missed Dan Cuoco's excellent White Hope article for TF2001, here are his ratings:

Ed (Gunboat) Smith
HW
USA

CFB/CFS 8/8
HP 4
KD1 3
KO 3
REC 3
CUT 1
ABPUN 2
KI 7
AG 8
END 10
DEF 0
FS 2
ROPES 2
PLAND 34
CPUNCH 34
PMISSED 63
CLINCH 70
FOUL Occ

IN 2
OUT 2
COVER 2
GOKO 1

DRAW 2
COND 1
INTEL 5
PROF 10

J3 2
H3 3
C3 4
CB3 1
U3 2

J2 14
H2 24
CR2 24
CB2 14
U2 12

RATING 3 BY CALCULATION / 5 BY DAN ,WHICH I AGREE WITH

CAREER 1908-1921


Couple Questions:

Any ideas why Luther McCarty's ratings have been changed so drastically in new version as opposed to those Dan did a couple years ago? The other white hopes are basically the same.

Also, this has probably been discussed, but why are there 2 Jesse Fergusons in the HW database?

[Cap]

Gunboat Smith, for a brief few years, was one of the baddest men on the planet. His record of victories during 1912 and 1913 reads like a who's who of major contenders in the heavyweight division, including the great Sam Langford. It was the rematch with Langford in 1914 that derailed the Smith express. Even after that, though, he didn't suffer another big loss until he was KO'd by Jim Coffey in November of 1915. The following year he still won more than he lost, but he never regained the form he had prior to the loss to Langford.

I disagree with the overall ratings of some fighters in TBCB. If Muhammad Ali is a 15, then Smith was at least a 10.

As for McCarty, he died very young and was, I believe no where near his peak yet. Had he lived, I think he would eventually have been a top contender for the title, and perhaps even Heavyweight Champ.

Cap

[Number 6]

Just out of interest - Jim and Tom did some add-on 'white hope' heavies for the old board game, that were published in All Star Replay magazine. Here's the board game version for comparison (the game used a random mumber from 1-80 for determining results) :

Gunboat Smith 7 (B/S)

CFB/S 8/8
HP/KI 7/6
KDR1 2
KDR2 1
KOR 1
CO/CH 5/4
TKO 2
AGG 8
END 05
DEF -2
FI 2
FO 2
CU 2
KO 2
PL 1-40
PM 41-61
CL 62-66
RM 67-78
Foul A
J3 1-11
J2 12-21
H3 22-25
H2 25-40
C3 41-45
C2 46-60
CB3 61-65
CB2 66-72
U3 73-74
U2 75-80
Ropes 2

[Boxingnut]

I always felt McCarthy's overall rating in TF2001 was too high (a 10). He had great potential but never lived long enough to realise it. I was actually going to lower his rating in TBCB when I realised it already been done.

[dempsonny]

I remember the all star replay articles and I like the Gunboat Smith rating. I feel the McCarthy rating is too low. Without the luxury of modern medicine McCarthy entered his last fight with a broken neck or at least a broken collarbone and died from a light jab. Before that he was beating everyone around. He hadn't lost a fight before that. He had KO'd an undefeated Carl Morris and Al Palzer. He also KO's Al Kaufman and Fireman Jim Flynn. He had won 16 fights all by knockout.
As for Smith 40 of his 55 wins were by knockouts against some of the better fighters of the era so a 7 was an accurate HP rating for him

Gus

[Boxingnut]

To be fair though Carl Morris wasn't much of a fighter, he was just very big in stature for the times. Palzer and Kaufman weren't too great either. Flynn was better, especially compared to the other white hopes but the white hopes McCarthy defeated are really remembered as much for the fact that they fought in one of the most contraversial eras in boxing as much as for their ability.

[Cap]

If you really want an accurate assessment of McCarty, go to the Cyberboxingzone and check out the issue of Wail with an indepth article about "The Fightin' Cowboy" penned by noted historian Tracy Callis with a little help from yours truly.

Cap

[Boxingnut]

Or alternatively read Randy Roberts excellent book "Papa Jack: Jack Johnson and the Era of the White Hopes"