generic formula for changing career stages?

thebadguy · 01-28-2004, 03:08 AM

I was just wondering if anyone has a somewhat "generic" formula for changing a fighters ratings when also changing his career stage. If not a generic, then maybe a "concrete" idea. Example: If I want to move Dominick Guinn into his prime, what ratings would you change and how would you change them?

In my universe, I want to combine the active fighters with the retired fighters, so I will be moving everyone into their prime. However, they will not be in their prime at all times. I will be using what seems to be a popular way of doing things which is: 1-15 beginning, 16-24 pre-prime, 25-50 prime, 51-70 post prime, 71-unlimited end.

If no one has a specific formula, maybe you guys can give me an example of a fighter you have changed. Im sure that some of you have a retired and prime version of Lennox Lewis, so how did you change his ratings? If I knew something like that, I could possibly come up with something based on one or two examples. Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas or advice you guys have. I would especially like to hear from Jim, Tom or Andreas on this. Thanks for your time, have a good one.

Gunsmoke · 01-28-2004, 02:50 PM

badguy,

There is not much info out there concerning the changing of Active fighters career stages. I know I asked a similar question a while ago. I found the following thread started by maxx which discusses aging and gives a formula to convert active fighters to retired:

Aging Thread

I adapted the formulas at the bottom of the first post for my universe to "age" active fighters as follows:

Move from Beginning to Pre-Prime: +1 Endurance, -2 Defense, +1 Control, +2 Counterpunch, +6 Punches.

Move from Pre-Prime to Prime: +1 Hitting Power, +1 Intelligence, +6 Punches, +6 Counterpunch.

Move from Prime to Post-Prime: -1 Hitting Power, +1 KD, +1 KO, +1 Recovery, -1 Control, -1 Endurance, +1 Cuts, +4 Defense, -8 Punches, -6 Counterpunch.

Move from Post-Prime to End: -1 Intelligence, -1 Hitting Power, +1 KD, +1 KO, +1 Recovery, -1 Control, +2 Defense, -2 Counterpunch, -6 Punches.

It seems to be working in a general sense but as with all things if it doesn't make sense for a particular fighter then alter the formula to suit.

Hope that helps,

Mark

thebadguy · 01-28-2004, 03:49 PM

so by logic, would that formula work in the same way if I wanted to change a post-prime fighter into his prime? would I just look at the prime to post-prime rating changes and then simply reverse them? in other words, instead of taking a point AWAY from HP, I would just simply add a point... right? anyway, have you tried this? thanks alot for the input, it seems like a pretty realistic formula. of course there are exceptions for specific fighters. My favorite is Evander, and I can positively say that the difference between his post-prime and his prime was alot more dramatic than that formula would suggest. Jim? Tom? Andreas? Any input on this? Thanks.

thebadguy · 01-28-2004, 07:28 PM

Gunsmoke · 01-28-2004, 08:03 PM

.. yeah that should work but, and it's a big BUT, I would still like to get the formula from the Trunzo's that they use for the career stages for Retired fighters. The formulas pasted above (the ones in the thread I linked are atually to take Beginning etc. fighters back to the prime, so you'll probably be happier with them) are only extrapolation and really I'm still not fully happy with them.

Mark

maxx · 01-28-2004, 10:35 PM

I've now been using that formula I calculated for quite some time now & it has been working o.k. The idea was to bring active fighter's to prime so they can be aged by the game's career stage adjustment in a way that was somewhat consistent with the way retired fighthers are aged in the game. So, what I do is take an active fighter, retire him, and then use those numbers to bring him to prime. I then allow the program to age from prime like all other retired fighters.

There are, of course, many problems with this method. First, when I made the calculations, I was just estimating based on the fight screen graphics. That leaves a whole lot of areas that aren't covered. Also, I've found that it tends to give probably too much of a boost to the punches/counterpunches of End & Post-Prime fighters. This is true particularly if the fighter still is at a fairly high skill rate (e.g., James Toney). There are other caveats listed in the other post.

Also, with Beginning & Pre-Prime fighters it won't take into account those who may surprisingly develop into superstars. For example, Manny Pacquiano would never develop into the star he is now if he'd been at his Beginning stage under this formula. So, in my universe, when I'm introducing a new fighter into the division who is at Beginning or Pre-Prime I randomly select (through a dice roll) fighters to give an extra boost to so they have the potential to develop into stars.

All that said, the actual ageing formula used in the game (or some variation of it) would be most welcome.

Gunsmoke · 01-29-2004, 01:53 AM

Hi Maxx,

Yeah I'm quite pleased with the formula you came up with, except for punching and counterpunching because in say 50% of cases it seems to give too big a boost. Really all I was saying was that I would love to get the real formula.

Mark

maxx · 01-29-2004, 03:27 AM

Mark: Yeah, it'd be nice to know how the career stages actually works so that active fighters wouldn't be given an advantage or disadvantage in our alternate universes.

No question punching/counterpunching is the main problem area with the formula as it now stands. I'm experimenting with p/cp of 6/4 from post to prime and 2/2 from end to post. So far it seems to be working a bit better, but I've still ended up making some additional adjustments where it just doesn't seem to fit.

thebadguy · 01-29-2004, 07:35 PM

01-28-2004, 03:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
thebadguy Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ephrata, WA Posts: 429	generic formula for changing career stages? I was just wondering if anyone has a somewhat "generic" formula for changing a fighters ratings when also changing his career stage. If not a generic, then maybe a "concrete" idea. Example: If I want to move Dominick Guinn into his prime, what ratings would you change and how would you change them? In my universe, I want to combine the active fighters with the retired fighters, so I will be moving everyone into their prime. However, they will not be in their prime at all times. I will be using what seems to be a popular way of doing things which is: 1-15 beginning, 16-24 pre-prime, 25-50 prime, 51-70 post prime, 71-unlimited end. If no one has a specific formula, maybe you guys can give me an example of a fighter you have changed. Im sure that some of you have a retired and prime version of Lennox Lewis, so how did you change his ratings? If I knew something like that, I could possibly come up with something based on one or two examples. Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas or advice you guys have. I would especially like to hear from Jim, Tom or Andreas on this. Thanks for your time, have a good one. __________________ "You need people like me... you need people like me so you can point your ****ing fingers... and say, thats the badguy!" - Al Pacino (Scarface)

01-28-2004, 03:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
thebadguy Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ephrata, WA Posts: 429	so by logic, would that formula work in the same way if I wanted to change a post-prime fighter into his prime? would I just look at the prime to post-prime rating changes and then simply reverse them? in other words, instead of taking a point AWAY from HP, I would just simply add a point... right? anyway, have you tried this? thanks alot for the input, it seems like a pretty realistic formula. of course there are exceptions for specific fighters. My favorite is Evander, and I can positively say that the difference between his post-prime and his prime was alot more dramatic than that formula would suggest. Jim? Tom? Andreas? Any input on this? Thanks. __________________ "You need people like me... you need people like me so you can point your ****ing fingers... and say, thats the badguy!" - Al Pacino (Scarface)

01-28-2004, 07:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
thebadguy Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ephrata, WA Posts: 429	bump __________________ "You need people like me... you need people like me so you can point your ****ing fingers... and say, thats the badguy!" - Al Pacino (Scarface)

01-29-2004, 07:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
thebadguy Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ephrata, WA Posts: 429	bump __________________ "You need people like me... you need people like me so you can point your ****ing fingers... and say, thats the badguy!" - Al Pacino (Scarface)

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01-28-2004, 02:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gunsmoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 945	badguy, There is not much info out there concerning the changing of Active fighters career stages. I know I asked a similar question a while ago. I found the following thread started by maxx which discusses aging and gives a formula to convert active fighters to retired: Aging Thread I adapted the formulas at the bottom of the first post for my universe to "age" active fighters as follows: Move from Beginning to Pre-Prime: +1 Endurance, -2 Defense, +1 Control, +2 Counterpunch, +6 Punches. Move from Pre-Prime to Prime: +1 Hitting Power, +1 Intelligence, +6 Punches, +6 Counterpunch. Move from Prime to Post-Prime: -1 Hitting Power, +1 KD, +1 KO, +1 Recovery, -1 Control, -1 Endurance, +1 Cuts, +4 Defense, -8 Punches, -6 Counterpunch. Move from Post-Prime to End: -1 Intelligence, -1 Hitting Power, +1 KD, +1 KO, +1 Recovery, -1 Control, +2 Defense, -2 Counterpunch, -6 Punches. It seems to be working in a general sense but as with all things if it doesn't make sense for a particular fighter then alter the formula to suit. Hope that helps, Mark

01-28-2004, 08:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Gunsmoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 945	.. yeah that should work but, and it's a big BUT, I would still like to get the formula from the Trunzo's that they use for the career stages for Retired fighters. The formulas pasted above (the ones in the thread I linked are atually to take Beginning etc. fighters back to the prime, so you'll probably be happier with them) are only extrapolation and really I'm still not fully happy with them. Mark

01-28-2004, 10:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	I've now been using that formula I calculated for quite some time now & it has been working o.k. The idea was to bring active fighter's to prime so they can be aged by the game's career stage adjustment in a way that was somewhat consistent with the way retired fighthers are aged in the game. So, what I do is take an active fighter, retire him, and then use those numbers to bring him to prime. I then allow the program to age from prime like all other retired fighters. There are, of course, many problems with this method. First, when I made the calculations, I was just estimating based on the fight screen graphics. That leaves a whole lot of areas that aren't covered. Also, I've found that it tends to give probably too much of a boost to the punches/counterpunches of End & Post-Prime fighters. This is true particularly if the fighter still is at a fairly high skill rate (e.g., James Toney). There are other caveats listed in the other post. Also, with Beginning & Pre-Prime fighters it won't take into account those who may surprisingly develop into superstars. For example, Manny Pacquiano would never develop into the star he is now if he'd been at his Beginning stage under this formula. So, in my universe, when I'm introducing a new fighter into the division who is at Beginning or Pre-Prime I randomly select (through a dice roll) fighters to give an extra boost to so they have the potential to develop into stars. All that said, the actual ageing formula used in the game (or some variation of it) would be most welcome.

01-29-2004, 01:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gunsmoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 945	Hi Maxx, Yeah I'm quite pleased with the formula you came up with, except for punching and counterpunching because in say 50% of cases it seems to give too big a boost. Really all I was saying was that I would love to get the real formula. Mark

01-29-2004, 03:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	Mark: Yeah, it'd be nice to know how the career stages actually works so that active fighters wouldn't be given an advantage or disadvantage in our alternate universes. No question punching/counterpunching is the main problem area with the formula as it now stands. I'm experimenting with p/cp of 6/4 from post to prime and 2/2 from end to post. So far it seems to be working a bit better, but I've still ended up making some additional adjustments where it just doesn't seem to fit.