A few things...

[JoshEngleman]

1) I was just thinking about making my own database, and I was wondering if anyone made a blank database. Deleting every single fighter, trainer, and things like that would be quite the task. Is there a way to do that which I am just missing, or is it one by one like I imagine.

2) If the blank dtabase is made, would anyone be interested in seeing a fantasy database of fighters? It can made made into a universe by setting up tons of fighters and everything. To me, it seems like something that could be fun, with people from the board contributing to the cause.

If anyone is interested in this idea, let me know.

Josh

[Montreal]

Hi Josh,

<< 1) I was just thinking about making my own database, and I was wondering if anyone made a blank database. Deleting every single fighter, trainer, and things like that would be quite the task. Is there a way to do that which I am just missing, or is it one by one like I imagine. >>

I created such an empty database. If you want it, just send me a note there: pierrep_qc@yahoo.ca . I will zip it and send it to you. There are three groups in it: Men, Women and Z_Survival, but there's only one fighter and he's in the group called Z_Survival. If you delete him without adding some new fighters, chances are that you won't be able to access the database from within your game.

My database is called *EMPTY*. If you want it, I suggest that 1) you unzip it into your Data sub-directory, 2) You create a new sub-directory in Data, 3) You copy and paste the files from EMPTY to your new sub-directory in Data. That way, you will always have a fresh and clean emty database if you want to create other new databases from scratch.

Now, don't delete the group Z-Survival until you have add at least one new fighter into your new database. And never delete Z_Survival from you basic EMPTY sub-directory either.


<< 2) If the blank dtabase is made, would anyone be interested in seeing a fantasy database of fighters? It can made made into a universe by setting up tons of fighters and everything. To me, it seems like something that could be fun, with people from the board contributing to the cause. If anyone is interested in this idea, let me know. >>

Yes, I am. And Antonin is, also. In fact, I created lots of fictional fighters and, amongst them, some 84 pure tomato cans that will win only from 5% to 25% (averaging 15%) of their fights against 1-Rated fighters. I was supposed to send all that to Gunsmoke at Cornerwork but he got married last week and he will be back around mid-July I guess. I had also a project consisting of creating a thread where anyone interested could post fictionnal fighters for anybody to use. But I have to say that I'm right now myself in slow motion mode: my youngest daughter is pregnant and her kid should be with us in a few days. My first grandson, so I have a hard time concentrating on anything else these days - lol.

But, anyway, yes, I'm interested in using, creating and posting fictional fighters. Go ahead with your ideas... I should be more active myself in a few weeks from now.

Pierre

[Antonin]

Josh: I don't have nearly as many fictional fighters as Pierre, but if you're going to get the blank database from him and want to start filling it, you're more than welcome to the guys I've created.

I think it would be fun to have a thread for fictional fighters. Running a fictional universe means a different kind of fun, because you have no preconceived notions about who should do well and how things *should* look.

I'm not interested in creating 13-rated fighters who will dominate their division. I prefer the lesser talented fighters. Guys who will have interesting fights. Say, level 5 and below. Even down to the sub-1 types that Pierre calls tomato cans.

Pierre: Congratulations!!!!

[JoshEngleman]

I would definately be interested in getting some of your created fighters. Basically, my thoughts on this would be to make a database that would run opposite to the current database. What I mean is, a purely fictional database where you can have new people coming in for every year in the 1900s. I know it is a pretty large task, but it seems like it could be feasable. I created a random number spreadsheet for creating fighters, cutmen, referees, and judges. If anyone is interested in it, let me know and I'll post the link to download it.

[Dave1877]

Sounds like an excellent idea, I'd love to make my own created universe with new fighters coming in every year when I created some more.

Would it be easy to do? Like you could make 30 fighters for each division for example for 1900, then as 1901 begins add another 30 created fighters to each division and so on. You would also decide on the career stage for all the fighters and decide when to retire them etc. It sounds good, but would probably take a while and some of the 'ratings' are confusing to me, so I'd be useless at creating fighters. Even after reading the manual I'm a bit confused how to rate some of the stats for a fighter. Too many -2's and stuff for me!

[Dave1877]

Also Josh, please post the link to the random fighter spreadsheet if you don't mind, that would help a lot. Bytheway, I have one already but it doesn't work, I don't have the Excel needed for it. It is the one that says 'press F9 to generate new fighter'. I have microsoft works spreadsheet, how can I get it to work? It says the formulas are too complex to work with my spreadsheet program.

[JoshEngleman]

That is basically the idea that I had. Have a group of fighters in say 1900. Then every year, more and more fighters would be added to the mix. The random fighter spreadsheet is one that I made myself, but I would imagine that it has been done before. I only have Excel and Corel as spreadsheet programs on my computer, but I would imagine there is a converter or something around. If anyone has more insight on this, please post it here. Anyway, here is the spreadsheet.

http://mysite.verizon.net/joshengleman/tbcb.zip

I added the option to generate a birth year. I used 1880-1985 as the range. Then I made another option for debut year. The debut year option adds 18 to 29 years to the birth year. It seems to work well enough.

[mh2365]

Nice little spreadsheet Josh I will probably use it as a base for fighters I make up for my universe.

[Dave1877]

Yeah thanks for that Josh, very nice of you to do that. One question though, what is the number for next to the '100%' bit on the right of the spreadsheet? It changes every time and is a 3 digit number. What is this number representing in title bout terms?

[JoshEngleman]

The number you a referring to is the punch total. In some hidden cells I have a random number generating for each one of the 2pt and 3pt totals. All of those numbers are added up and the number you see is the total of them. So if it generated 50 for 2pt Hooks and the total of every single catagory was 500, 2pt hooks would get 10%. It was the only way I could do those totals. Sometimes when you create guys, there will only be 99% used because of decimals. I didn't really think it was a big problem. Giving someone the extra 1% isn't really that big of a deal. I hope I cleared that up.

[Montreal]

Hi Josh,

<< I would definately be interested in getting some of your created fighters. >>

They will be downloadable from Cornerwork as soon as Gunsmoke will be back. I have two packs of heavies for now: 84 absolute tomato cans, plus 110 guys rated from 1 to 11, but with only 15 of them with a rating over 5. Like Antonin, I do prefer myself creating guys with low OR. However, I will let you know as soon as I will send them to Gunsmoke.

By the way, is your project only for the HW division? As for me I also have 120 LHW and 60 MW right now, but the work on them is not over yet. In fact, my initial goal was to create (at least) 120 fictional fighters in each of the eight basic divisions.

<< I created a random number spreadsheet for creating fighters, cutmen, referees, and judges. >>

Depending on how the internal maths are done, one of the problems that might occur using a spreadsheet would be that chances are that we got in the end a more or less equal number of fighters at each level of ratings, from 1 to 15. So, every fighter rated under 7 will have a losing record. I don't really mind, except that it's not realistic considering the fact that most fighters in TBCB with a rating of 1 had a winning record in real life... Moreover, it's not likely that a spreadsheet will create pure tomato cans with putrid ratings/attributes.

As a matter of fact, the problem with TBCB's default database is that we would need at the very least as many pure tomato cans (winning percentage around 15% vs *regular* 1-rated fighters) in each division as we have at the 1-rated level. In fact, to replicate about corretly fighters' records from bottom to top, we need to cut by at least 1.5 the number of fighters each time we go up in the pyramid.

For instance, looking from top to bottom, for each 15-rated fighter, we need at least 1.5 guy(s) rated 14, 2.25 guys rated 13, 3.4 rated 12, 5.1 rated 11, 7.6 rated 10, 11.4 rated 9, 17 rated 8, 25.6 rated 7, 38.4 rated 6, 57.7 rated 5, 86.5 rated 4, 129.7 rated 3, 195 rated 2, 292 rated 1. And, of course, some 400 putrid tomato cans so the guys at the 1-rated level could get all their wins while they will lose most of the time versus fighters rated 2, 3, 4 and over and will more or less split against other 1-rated fighters. Well, if we don't care about replicating records for eveyone corresponding to those in the real boxing world, there's obviously no need to build a pyramid of that kind when preparing a set of fictional boxers

Once again, depending on how the internal maths are done into the speadsheet, the other major problem that might arise is that we would have about 90% of the fighters with an overall rating in the range of (say) 3 to 5 (or 5 to 7 or...). In the end, it's likely that most fighters will have a winning percentage more or less around 50%. Which is not what happens in the real boxing world either. Now, if we're not creating fictional fighters in the goal of simulating real boxing world, that's not a problem either.

All in all, that's why I personally prefer creating a set of fighters without using pure random numbers, so I could end up distributing Overall Ratings in a way that a fictional universe would be similar to the real boxing world. But maybe all that is already taken into account with your spredsheet anyway.

Antonin: Thanks for the congrats! But, frankly, everything went really smooth and easy for me so far - lol

Pierre

[JoshEngleman]

My goal was to use the eight original weight classes. Too many weight classes gets too thinned out for my liking. My spreadsheet is pure random numbers. The more that you talk about the random numbers, the more I think that I should make each fighter individually.

My whole thought was to start a universe in 1900 with a purely fictional set of fighters, and run it until present day.

[crusadecat]

I'd certainly be glad to help you if you were looking for ideas for fighters and concepts etc. I guess it would be helpful to find out what you are looking for. Do you want something that is modern or historical in nature. Are you looking for life like fighters or more fantasy like ala Rocky Balboa, Apollo Creed, Clubber Lang types?

[crusadecat]

I saw the answer to my first question . starting with 1900 gotcha on that one.

[Montreal]

<< My spreadsheet is pure random numbers. The more that you talk about the random numbers, the more I think that I should make each fighter individually. >>

Well, if those are only pure random numbers, yes, I think it's better going with a minimal *plan*. And it's not even considering weird things like a guy having a CF of (say) 13 against boxers et 3 against sluggers or vice-versa. Or a Punch of 42 and a counter of 24... Or others very strange things like that. Creating fictionnal fighters rating by rating is fun because we have some good space for working as we like and we don't have to bother reproducing some particular style and records based on a real fighter's. But, of course, we have to apply some basic logic in our decisions that a pure random generator simply can't deal with.

<< My whole thought was to start a universe in 1900 with a purely fictional set of fighters, and run it until present day. >>

Does that imply that we would have to give a birth date and a range of years for the career? For instance, that guy was born in 1876, died in 1942, fought from 1900 to 1911...

Pierre

[JoshEngleman]

Yeah, the randomness of some ratings were starting to bother me when I had really weird control factors. I'm definately going to start creating guys on an individual basis.

My thinking on the subject of years is this. I think the fighter should be given a birth year and career start year. If you used a setup similar to Cube's, their career ending year would be determined when they run out of points from his system. I also think that randomizing death years could be interesting. Bringing promising careers to a hault before anything is known.

[Antonin]

Pierre knows I'm a big fan of randomness--what one of my heroes, composer John Cage, called "chance operations." But I'd be the first to admit that you can get really wierd outcomes if you rely solely upon the roll of the dice for the purpose of creating fighters.

I've wound up editing several of my created fighters downwards, because a club fighter with an overall rating of 1 probably should not have both control ratings at 13. Editing is OK according to my rules. Another hero of mine, writer William Burroughs--who made extensive use of the "cut up" technique in creating prose--also edited his work.

Anyway, one thing I want to say about fictional fighters is that in my humble opinion it would really go against the spirit of the thing if people just make 28 copies of a 1-rated guy and rename them and call them their own. Be creative. Use the conditioning ratings to give your fictional fighter some back story. Maybe the guy has a punch like a mule but a glass jaw. Maybe he's Mr Life of the Party and you just don't know how he'll perform when he steps into the ring. Have him come from your Aunt Winnie's hometown. Give him the nickname you had in high school. Etc etc.

I wish I could use a spreadsheet to help in fighter creation, but I don't have Excel or Corel. I might have Lotus on my application CD. I know there are freeware spreadsheet programs--if you yourself have used one and it can be downloaded from a reputable site that you yourself have downloaded from, let me know please. I don't DL things from sites I don't know, or sites that are not vouched for by people I trust.

[JoshEngleman]

Antonin - If you are looking for a free spreadsheet program, I highly recommend Open Office. You really can't go wrong with it at all.

http://www.openoffice.org/

[Montreal]

<< My thinking on the subject of years is this. I think the fighter should be given a birth year and career start year. If you used a setup similar to Cube's, their career ending year would be determined when they run out of points from his system. I also think that randomizing death years could be interesting. Bringing promising careers to a hault before anything is known. >>

Initially, my own project was in fact almost perfectly identical to yours -- meaning, recreating the century with fictional fighters from 1900 to 2000 in the eight basic divisions with every fighters assigned to one specific era as soon as they are created. In fact, I still think that it would be a wonderful project to launch. But when I did the maths, though, I was not sure anymore that my idea was realizable, not only in the short run (a few months) but probably not even in the medium run (one year and up). Are you really sure you want me posting my maths here? - lol

Pierre

[JoshEngleman]

I'm definately interested in what you have to say about this project. My initial thoughts were that it can be done, but if you have some ideas on why it can't be, I'd love to hear them before I make too many fake fighters.