BACK FROM THE DEAD! (Or so I'm sure it seems!)

Jim Trunzo · 07-14-2004, 01:51 PM

Hello, all of you. I think that it is time to break the self-imposed "vow of silence" and risk the wrath of Andreas and the rest by giving a premature "sneak peak" at what is and isn't going to be happening in the near future:

1. No more "official" updates of fighters will take place after this month. There will be one more update of the current fighter database, changing exisiting fighters as needed, adding new ones and moving retired fighters if warranted. Then, all official changes of any kind to all fighter databases will be done for the release of the next version of the product.

2. Almost all current efforts have gone toward the design of the role-playing game. The design will feature a hybrid role for the gamer, emulating what has happened in boxing: trainer/managers roles being combined in many cases. Still to be determined will be the role of promoter. Some of the factors that go into our final decision are: (a) in the US, a person cannot be both the manager and the promoter of a fighter; (b) in Europe an individual CAN be both the manager and the promoter of a fighter; (c) the latest trend in boxing is for an elite fighter to be his OWN promoter/manager. This type of lack of a clearly defined and consistent organizational "tree" makes creating a simulation of boxing management very difficult.

3. Features that we intend to include and that have already been designed (thought not tested):

*Flexible design of your boxing "avatar". You'll decide on how you wish to obtain you original bankroll, the type of lifestyle you'll live, the approach you wish to take when signing your stable of fighters, etc.

*Strong and realistic financial tracking program. You monthly expenditures will depend on a wide variety of factors, as will your monthly income. Shoddy money management and/or bad luck will almost certainly lead to bankruptcy. However, if you are smart, make the right deals, develop a good stable of fighters and have luck, luck, luck - you can become a power in the sport.

*Access to The Boxing Daily, an industry publication that can be accessed on a daily basis and contain all the boxing news that's fit to print - and some that isn't. Find out who won and lost in last night's bouts, read about the latest scandal (hopefully it doesn't involve one of your fighters) or the latest image-enhancing act (hopefully it DOES involve your fighter). The rumors column just might have your name in it, too, improving or damaging your reputation, depending upon just what you've been up to outside the ring. The column might also be a great place to pick up a tip on what fighter is looking to get out of his contract and become a free-agent.

*Intense contract negotiations, complete with initial offers, counter-offers, out-right acceptance, and flat refusals. Every contract negotiation will be different: you offers can vary greatly, the attitude of the fighter can have a huge range, and many other factors can come into play. You'd better be a good judge of character as well as talent!

Here are some anticipated questions, with tentative answers:

Q: Can you own your own gym?
A: Sure, if you have the money to buy one.

Q: Can fights be fixed?
A: Yes, and you can also end up barred from boxing and in jail.

Q: Will your success and failure be affected by your fighters' out of the ring activities?
A: Most definitely. Remember the previous statement about judging character as well as talent?

Q: Will fighters age and retire and be replaced by newly introduced up-and-coming amateurs?
A: Yes, fighters will age and may retire on their own or be forced out by failing to pass physicals or being refused licenses.

Q: Will you be able to negotiate with promoters?
A: You'll have to or your fighters will never fight, even in a dive, let alone on television. The challenge you'll face is to be able to grow as a manager so that you can negotiate from a position of strength rather than from a position of weakness.

Q: Will the designers and programmers of the Title Bout roleplaying game answer specific questions on the above and on other aspects about which gamers are curious?

A: NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT! What we will do is continue to make periodic releases as new factors come into play, as modules are completely finished, etc. We're not trying to be smart or play games - the truth is so much still has to be done and it would be irresponsible to speculate on much at this point. We also don't want to get bogged down in debates about what should or shouldn't be in the game, why something is or isn't in the game, when the game is going to be released, etc. etc. etc. -- we want to keep putting our time into the actual work on the game. However, feel free to post your "wish lists" for the game, things you hope to see, don't want to see, etc. You guys (and gals?) are fertile ground for ideas and improvements, and we respect you tremendously. Just don't expect responses to your suggestions, necessarily.

Okay, there's some cannon fodder for the faithful. Looking forward to completely this new version of the product and improving upon what is already in place (more sound, voice, graphics, etc.).

Take care!
Jim Trunzo

Cap · 07-14-2004, 03:03 PM

So nice of you to drop in, ol' chap!

I'm certain many will be thrilled by the concepts you've raised on this forum. Boxing Promoters and managers, the true princes of the sporting world. Dealing with the daily nitty gritty of what some consider the dirtiest sport in town. Dental bills, spit buckets and foul cups, latex gloves, illegal narcotics and steroids, sleazy skanks and numbers runners, bent cops, incompetent judges and geriatric referees with double vision, fixed fights. The game will sell itself.

Pity TBCB must be abandoned, but that is the price of progress.

We'll shoot for Christmas 2006 and hope for the best.

Do come again, ol' bean!

wildhawke11 · 07-14-2004, 04:16 PM

Very Nice Jim
But it would also be nice and much appreciated if some of the more obvious and many times asked for by your paying customers the little things that are still WRONG in the present TBCB were sorted. If you have the time check out the Problems and Tech Support Forum.

Put another way, i assume the Role Play Game is a much bigger and more complicated assignment. If there are still little problems that need sorting in our present game. If they cant be sorted it does not encourage us to think that there wont be BIG problems with the new much more complicated Role Play Game.

Of course many i feel will be drawn to the new Role Play Game and quite rightly so. But myself i feel that many real boxing enthusiasts will also still buy TBCB which can still sell and run along side of the new game. So please don't give up on the CLASSIC game TBCB.
Thanks again for the update Jim.

Cap
Myself i feel that TBCB is still going to be the *bread and butter game* for guys like you and i and many other purists. So in my humble opinion to leave it to gather dust would be a move in the wrong direction.

LeeSkye · 07-14-2004, 04:49 PM

I am impressed with the scope of the concept and all the little details that most certainly will add to the depth of the game!

I remember it being said that the present TBCB database of fighters that we use now will be useable also in the role playing game so I assume TBCB itself will continue on. [Looking forward to version 257.105...that should keep Andreas in biscuits for a few years!]

Quote:

sleazy skanks

I'm in!

mh2365 · 07-14-2004, 05:29 PM

Can I go ahead and pay for the game now? What do you want? 40? 50? 85? whatever can I have it now!!!!!!

hamed · 07-14-2004, 10:11 PM

Jim, I agree with wildhawke11. That new game sounds great & interesting but as you said, will take some time.

In the mean time, I enjoy the game as is but will miss your updating the fighters. As we all know, a lot can happen very quickly in boxing (1 punch to Roy Jones, for example) so we'll miss those updates if we're talking about no updated fighters for a year or more!

By the way, I read what Larry Holmes said on Fightnews about both Foreman & Roy Jones & it's pretty much exactly what you said about those 2 on here months ago.

Gunsmoke · 07-15-2004, 05:49 AM

This all sounds good Jim and I'm glad it's progressing. But I can't help thinking that you guys would benefit from a release of an update to the basic game before the RP is finished to a) give you guys some cash flow and b) slightly enhance the game and keep the punters coming back for more. By updated I'm not talking in a big way just some bug fixes to clean up what's left and maybe the Bareknuckle module that was briefly thought about. Both those are just examples but show the sort of things I mean.

I love where your going with all this but I am concerned that the sim will be left for a year or more with little to keep us coming here.

Cheers,
Mark

Dave1877 · 07-15-2004, 06:30 AM

I agree with Gunsmoke and the others who commented on the current TBCB game. The RP game sounds brilliant, it will be brilliant to be a promoter, manager and all that and being able to use the current TBCB database would be a god-send. But the people who bought TBCB are still playing it a lot, and updates would defnitely keep us coming back for more.

Every so often a new member will come here looking to buy TBCB, I just think it would be a more attractive option to buy if there were still regular updates to the game. I know that when I bought the game, a big attraction was the fact that I was told the developers are very helpful and update the game regularly.

TBCB is the best boxing game ever, no doubt about it. But with a few tweaks, it could keep us all playing for years on end. Such as the actual fights, there are little bugs on the fights screen sometimes which could be sorted out. And a lot of players have commented on improving the swelling part of the fights, 'swelling never decreases as fights go on', 'fights always get stopped as soon as swelling goes red', etc. These are just minor things, as is the title belt pictures and histories, but these minor things would be great for the game.

If you decided not to continue updating TBCB we would understand and respect the decision because after all, instead you are working on a new game for us which sounds very good. But personally I get the feeling that TBCB is not quite the finished article yet.

Antonin · 07-15-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunsmoke

This all sounds good Jim and I'm glad it's progressing. But I can't help thinking that you guys would benefit from a release of an update to the basic game before the RP is finished to a) give you guys some cash flow and b) slightly enhance the game and keep the punters coming back for more. By updated I'm not talking in a big way just some bug fixes to clean up what's left and maybe the Bareknuckle module that was briefly thought about. Both those are just examples but show the sort of things I mean.

I love where your going with all this but I am concerned that the sim will be left for a year or more with little to keep us coming here.

Cheers,
Mark

My feelings exactly. The possibilities mentioned for the "RP" version sound interesting, but extremely ambitious. Maybe too ambitious. There are other sports management games out there that have taken several versions to get the financial component even remotely right. Trying too much and getting big chunks of it wrong will create ill-will that will take time and energy to dispel.

I'm not one of the boxing/TBCB experts on this board, but for what it's worth, I think it's best to keep things simple. At least in the beginning.

I've been hoping for a "RP" version since TBCB was introduced, but I have to agree with the hard-core sim guys that a number of issues with the current replay version of the game need looking at...

Just my

Ronnie · 07-15-2004, 03:06 PM

Hi. Iv'e only discovered this site and this game over the past few days. I have the demo and after playing it decided it's the best boxing replay game I've ever played. It has one or two flaws but I was definatly going to purchase it. However with the announcement of no more updates I am having serious reservations about this.I agree that a role playing game would be good but the game as it stands with regular updates would be a better seller in the long run.

I hav'nt looked at the possibility of making my own updates yet. Could any experienced gamers tell me if this would be feasable if no more updates were planned.

Ronnie · 07-15-2004, 03:38 PM

Sorry. I've obviously posted the above reply too soon as I had'nt read Jim's other post which has eased my fears somewhat. I'd still be keen to recieve advice from others about making my own ratings. I know there's a section in the manuel but I'd be interested to here what other people do. I'm particulary interested in making my own "tomato cans , opponents and future prospects" or am I thinking of taking on too big a task.

wildhawke11 · 07-15-2004, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Hi. Iv'e only discovered this site and this game over the past few days. I have the demo and after playing it decided it's the best boxing replay game I've ever played. It has one or two flaws but I was definatly going to purchase it. However with the announcement of no more updates I am having serious reservations about this.I agree that a role playing game would be good but the game as it stands with regular updates would be a better seller in the long run.

I hav'nt looked at the possibility of making my own updates yet. Could any experienced gamers tell me if this would be feasable if no more updates were planned.

Ronnie.
Hello and welcome to our beloved Boxing Site.
Trust me on this Ron, Jim and Tom the guys who design this game are a Class Act and our programmer Andrea's is Top Notch.
I just kick there arse now and again, but deep down i am sure they know i have full respect for them. Now when Jim reads this he will think i have gone soft.
You will find Ron that the lads here are very helpful in guiding you in any way you wish with our game, yes i do mean OUR game we just let Jim Tom and Andrea's do the hard work but we consider it our game.
To be very blunt a lot of other boxing sites i have gone to, some of the members are like school kids. But on here in most cases we try to act like adults and respect all views, even if we don't always agree with each other.

Enjoy the game Ron, and don't forget to download the add-ons such as pics of the fighters etc etc. If you really like the game it would help if you can recommend it to any of your friends as being a small Company and of course boxing not now being a major sport, all sales help to keep the boxing games coming for the future.
No, i don't work for the Company Ron but i have to give credit to them when its due.
Cheers Ron
Danny

mking55 · 07-15-2004, 07:57 PM

What a dilemma!

You want to create a new game that broadens the whole package.
You want to keep updating your current product.
You want to keep your current customers happy.
You want to attract new customers.
And you are only a “1-man programmer shop”.

Everyone is right. Everyone has their pet project that they want to see in the current game. Like most software, as good as this game is, it needs improvements and enhancements. Unfortunately, reality intrudes once again.

I believe it would be impossible to do justice to both games at the same time when the first one is in development. I think in order to maximize your chance for success; you have to give your full attention to the one being developed. If there were multiple programmers, you could do both. But as good as Andreas is, and I believe he is very good, he’s not good enough to do both at the same time and also sleep a few hours at night and have a meal or two every few days. (Forget about family and bathroom breaks).

For what it’s worth (and that would be a promise to buy the new game when ready), I understand and agree with what is being done. I too would love to see some of the enhancements people want but I can’t have both right now. It’s a fine game now and they say they will fix bugs. I can live with that.

I think we have gotten good value for our money, and others who purchase the current game as is, will also get good value.

I would hope that we as a community respect their decision and give them our support. I think they’ve earned it.

Martin
TBCB fanboy

mh2365 · 07-15-2004, 09:58 PM

Oh yeah ... one other question. Will there be a TBCB2 in addition to the role playing game or are they together. As long as I can use my same universe (in TBCB2) I would buy both.

Brooks TVB · 07-15-2004, 11:31 PM

I too am new to this game but with the help of the community here i have found a good game to be a great game. Every game has flaws and glitches or what not, but even with the few problems i have run into on this game it does not slow my fun down. I am looking forward to the role playing game, so if there are no more updates to this one i can live without them in order to get the new game out faster and with fewer problems.

07-14-2004, 01:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 740	BACK FROM THE DEAD! (Or so I'm sure it seems!) Hello, all of you. I think that it is time to break the self-imposed "vow of silence" and risk the wrath of Andreas and the rest by giving a premature "sneak peak" at what is and isn't going to be happening in the near future: 1. No more "official" updates of fighters will take place after this month. There will be one more update of the current fighter database, changing exisiting fighters as needed, adding new ones and moving retired fighters if warranted. Then, all official changes of any kind to all fighter databases will be done for the release of the next version of the product. 2. Almost all current efforts have gone toward the design of the role-playing game. The design will feature a hybrid role for the gamer, emulating what has happened in boxing: trainer/managers roles being combined in many cases. Still to be determined will be the role of promoter. Some of the factors that go into our final decision are: (a) in the US, a person cannot be both the manager and the promoter of a fighter; (b) in Europe an individual CAN be both the manager and the promoter of a fighter; (c) the latest trend in boxing is for an elite fighter to be his OWN promoter/manager. This type of lack of a clearly defined and consistent organizational "tree" makes creating a simulation of boxing management very difficult. 3. Features that we intend to include and that have already been designed (thought not tested): Flexible design of your boxing "avatar". You'll decide on how you wish to obtain you original bankroll, the type of lifestyle you'll live, the approach you wish to take when signing your stable of fighters, etc. Strong and realistic financial tracking program. You monthly expenditures will depend on a wide variety of factors, as will your monthly income. Shoddy money management and/or bad luck will almost certainly lead to bankruptcy. However, if you are smart, make the right deals, develop a good stable of fighters and have luck, luck, luck - you can become a power in the sport. Access to The Boxing Daily, an industry publication that can be accessed on a daily basis and contain all the boxing news that's fit to print - and some that isn't. Find out who won and lost in last night's bouts, read about the latest scandal (hopefully it doesn't involve one of your fighters) or the latest image-enhancing act (hopefully it DOES involve your fighter). The rumors column just might have your name in it, too, improving or damaging your reputation, depending upon just what you've been up to outside the ring. The column might also be a great place to pick up a tip on what fighter is looking to get out of his contract and become a free-agent. Intense contract negotiations, complete with initial offers, counter-offers, out-right acceptance, and flat refusals. Every contract negotiation will be different: you offers can vary greatly, the attitude of the fighter can have a huge range, and many other factors can come into play. You'd better be a good judge of character as well as talent! Here are some anticipated questions, with tentative answers: Q: Can you own your own gym? A: Sure, if you have the money to buy one. Q: Can fights be fixed? A: Yes, and you can also end up barred from boxing and in jail. Q: Will your success and failure be affected by your fighters' out of the ring activities? A: Most definitely. Remember the previous statement about judging character as well as talent? Q: Will fighters age and retire and be replaced by newly introduced up-and-coming amateurs? A: Yes, fighters will age and may retire on their own or be forced out by failing to pass physicals or being refused licenses. Q: Will you be able to negotiate with promoters? A: You'll have to or your fighters will never fight, even in a dive, let alone on television. The challenge you'll face is to be able to grow as a manager so that you can negotiate from a position of strength rather than from a position of weakness. Q: Will the designers and programmers of the Title Bout roleplaying game answer specific questions on the above and on other aspects about which gamers are curious? A: NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT! What we will do is continue to make periodic releases as new factors come into play, as modules are completely finished, etc. We're not trying to be smart or play games - the truth is so much still has to be done and it would be irresponsible to speculate on much at this point. We also don't want to get bogged down in debates about what should or shouldn't be in the game, why something is or isn't in the game, when the game is going to be released, etc. etc. etc. -- we want to keep putting our time into the actual work on the game. However, feel free to post your "wish lists" for the game, things you hope to see, don't want to see, etc. You guys (and gals?) are fertile ground for ideas and improvements, and we respect you tremendously. Just don't expect responses to your suggestions, necessarily. Okay, there's some cannon fodder for the faithful. Looking forward to completely this new version of the product and improving upon what is already in place (more sound, voice, graphics, etc.). Take care! Jim Trunzo

07-14-2004, 03:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 4,004	So nice of you to drop in, ol' chap! I'm certain many will be thrilled by the concepts you've raised on this forum. Boxing Promoters and managers, the true princes of the sporting world. Dealing with the daily nitty gritty of what some consider the dirtiest sport in town. Dental bills, spit buckets and foul cups, latex gloves, illegal narcotics and steroids, sleazy skanks and numbers runners, bent cops, incompetent judges and geriatric referees with double vision, fixed fights. The game will sell itself. Pity TBCB must be abandoned, but that is the price of progress. We'll shoot for Christmas 2006 and hope for the best. Do come again, ol' bean! Attached Images __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

07-14-2004, 10:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
hamed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,073	Jim, I agree with wildhawke11. That new game sounds great & interesting but as you said, will take some time. In the mean time, I enjoy the game as is but will miss your updating the fighters. As we all know, a lot can happen very quickly in boxing (1 punch to Roy Jones, for example) so we'll miss those updates if we're talking about no updated fighters for a year or more! By the way, I read what Larry Holmes said on Fightnews about both Foreman & Roy Jones & it's pretty much exactly what you said about those 2 on here months ago. Last edited by hamed : 07-15-2004 at 09:43 AM.

07-15-2004, 05:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gunsmoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 945	This all sounds good Jim and I'm glad it's progressing. But I can't help thinking that you guys would benefit from a release of an update to the basic game before the RP is finished to a) give you guys some cash flow and b) slightly enhance the game and keep the punters coming back for more. By updated I'm not talking in a big way just some bug fixes to clean up what's left and maybe the Bareknuckle module that was briefly thought about. Both those are just examples but show the sort of things I mean. I love where your going with all this but I am concerned that the sim will be left for a year or more with little to keep us coming here. Cheers, Mark __________________ Cornerwork the Title Bout Championship Boxing fansite!

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07-14-2004, 04:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,834	Very Nice Jim But it would also be nice and much appreciated if some of the more obvious and many times asked for by your paying customers the little things that are still WRONG in the present TBCB were sorted. If you have the time check out the Problems and Tech Support Forum. Put another way, i assume the Role Play Game is a much bigger and more complicated assignment. If there are still little problems that need sorting in our present game. If they cant be sorted it does not encourage us to think that there wont be BIG problems with the new much more complicated Role Play Game. Of course many i feel will be drawn to the new Role Play Game and quite rightly so. But myself i feel that many real boxing enthusiasts will also still buy TBCB which can still sell and run along side of the new game. So please don't give up on the CLASSIC game TBCB. Thanks again for the update Jim. Cap Myself i feel that TBCB is still going to be the bread and butter game for guys like you and i and many other purists. So in my humble opinion to leave it to gather dust would be a move in the wrong direction.

07-14-2004, 05:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	Can I go ahead and pay for the game now? What do you want? 40? 50? 85? whatever can I have it now!!!!!!

07-15-2004, 06:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dave1877 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: West Midlands, United Kingdom Posts: 488	I agree with Gunsmoke and the others who commented on the current TBCB game. The RP game sounds brilliant, it will be brilliant to be a promoter, manager and all that and being able to use the current TBCB database would be a god-send. But the people who bought TBCB are still playing it a lot, and updates would defnitely keep us coming back for more. Every so often a new member will come here looking to buy TBCB, I just think it would be a more attractive option to buy if there were still regular updates to the game. I know that when I bought the game, a big attraction was the fact that I was told the developers are very helpful and update the game regularly. TBCB is the best boxing game ever, no doubt about it. But with a few tweaks, it could keep us all playing for years on end. Such as the actual fights, there are little bugs on the fights screen sometimes which could be sorted out. And a lot of players have commented on improving the swelling part of the fights, 'swelling never decreases as fights go on', 'fights always get stopped as soon as swelling goes red', etc. These are just minor things, as is the title belt pictures and histories, but these minor things would be great for the game. If you decided not to continue updating TBCB we would understand and respect the decision because after all, instead you are working on a new game for us which sounds very good. But personally I get the feeling that TBCB is not quite the finished article yet.

07-15-2004, 03:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ronnie Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Inverness Scotland Posts: 52	Hi. Iv'e only discovered this site and this game over the past few days. I have the demo and after playing it decided it's the best boxing replay game I've ever played. It has one or two flaws but I was definatly going to purchase it. However with the announcement of no more updates I am having serious reservations about this.I agree that a role playing game would be good but the game as it stands with regular updates would be a better seller in the long run. I hav'nt looked at the possibility of making my own updates yet. Could any experienced gamers tell me if this would be feasable if no more updates were planned.

07-15-2004, 03:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ronnie Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Inverness Scotland Posts: 52	Sorry. I've obviously posted the above reply too soon as I had'nt read Jim's other post which has eased my fears somewhat. I'd still be keen to recieve advice from others about making my own ratings. I know there's a section in the manuel but I'd be interested to here what other people do. I'm particulary interested in making my own "tomato cans , opponents and future prospects" or am I thinking of taking on too big a task.

07-15-2004, 07:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
mking55 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 703	What a dilemma! You want to create a new game that broadens the whole package. You want to keep updating your current product. You want to keep your current customers happy. You want to attract new customers. And you are only a “1-man programmer shop”. Everyone is right. Everyone has their pet project that they want to see in the current game. Like most software, as good as this game is, it needs improvements and enhancements. Unfortunately, reality intrudes once again. I believe it would be impossible to do justice to both games at the same time when the first one is in development. I think in order to maximize your chance for success; you have to give your full attention to the one being developed. If there were multiple programmers, you could do both. But as good as Andreas is, and I believe he is very good, he’s not good enough to do both at the same time and also sleep a few hours at night and have a meal or two every few days. (Forget about family and bathroom breaks). For what it’s worth (and that would be a promise to buy the new game when ready), I understand and agree with what is being done. I too would love to see some of the enhancements people want but I can’t have both right now. It’s a fine game now and they say they will fix bugs. I can live with that. I think we have gotten good value for our money, and others who purchase the current game as is, will also get good value. I would hope that we as a community respect their decision and give them our support. I think they’ve earned it. Martin TBCB fanboy

07-15-2004, 09:58 PM	#14 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	Oh yeah ... one other question. Will there be a TBCB2 in addition to the role playing game or are they together. As long as I can use my same universe (in TBCB2) I would buy both.

07-15-2004, 11:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Brooks TVB All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Loudon, TN. Posts: 1,367	I too am new to this game but with the help of the community here i have found a good game to be a great game. Every game has flaws and glitches or what not, but even with the few problems i have run into on this game it does not slow my fun down. I am looking forward to the role playing game, so if there are no more updates to this one i can live without them in order to get the new game out faster and with fewer problems.