Jack Dempsey

[Fallschirmjager]

Dempsey is one of my favorite fighters and I have read a wealth of books on the man. In every book on him it always talks about his tremendous amount of power in his punches. Knocking out sparring partners or ever breaking their facial bones was not rare when he was training.
I thought about upping his power to an 11 or so but I wanted to get the consensus of the forum and if they thought an 8 was dead on or if it should be higher (or maybe even lower).

Thanks

[thebadguy]

I hadn't noticed that Dempsey's power was just at an 8. That does seem odd, especially when you take into account that he is considered by many to be the most viscious HW ever. I would definitely bump his HP up to 9 or 10. However, I would wait and\or hope that Jim responds to this thread explaining the reasoning behind Dempseys power rating. If we dont hear from him, do as you see fit. Just one thing though... if by raising his HP, you also make his overall rating go to a 14 or 15... then I would reconsider. He does not belong in the same class as Louis or Ali.

[sabotai]

While Dempsey's HP is only an 8, both Agressiveness and Killer Instinct are rated at 10. Jim always likes to remind us how altering one rating can effect several others. And he's right (which is why rating fighters can be fun and frustrating at the same time. ).

Here's what I would do.

Go to the scheduler and have Dempsey fight all of his opponents that appear in the game with the default rating. Have each fight repeat 20 or so times. Look at the results. See if the are generally around how his fights turned out.

Bump up his HP to 9 and repeat. Bump it up to 10 and repeat. See if the results start becomeing more and more off from what happened.

The tricky part with fighter ratings in this game is that it's no an exact science. Once you get the ratings to where they make the fighter perform like his real life counterpart, you leave them alone. Even if some of the number might not make a whole lot of sense.

[Mark42661]

You have to take into consideration Dempsey's control factor, which is 12 against boxers and 13 against sluggers. A guy with control factors of 12/13 and hitting power of 8 is much more dangerous than a guy with control factors of 10/10 and hitting power of 10. Like Jim Trunzo has tried to point out several times, there is a fine balance to consider when raising and lowering hitting power ratings. It seems to me that his "official ratings" yield pretty realistic results.

EDIT: Sabotai beat me to it.

[Fallschirmjager]

He never really fought anyone of alot of talent besides Tunney.
But look at the willard fight and the massive amount of damage he did to the man.
And in both fight against Tunney he got in just one clean hard shot and almost knocked Tunney down both times.
The manual lists HP as 'pure concussive force' but what I have read Dempsey had that in spades.

[Hollywood Blond]

If you're getting realistic results, don't mess with it.

[IceTea]

I would agree that Dempsey is rated just about right. If you watch his old films, he threw lots of punches, which was the trend in that era anyway, when campaired to heavyweights over the past 20 years or so. The only one during the recent eras that throws a high number of punches is Evander Holyfield.

[Fallschirmjager]

Originally Posted by IceTea

I would agree that Dempsey is rated just about right. If you watch his old films, he threw lots of punches, which was the trend in that era anyway, when campaired to heavyweights over the past 20 years or so. The only one during the recent eras that throws a high number of punches is Evander Holyfield.

Im not sure I follow you here. The manual lists HP as 'one punch power'. Handspeed and I guess throwing lots of punches would be tied into your punching, missed punches and agression ratings.


Unfortunatly for my testing only about 7 of Dempseys opponents are in the database. He fought all through Rocky Mountain district and from records he scored mostly KO's in round 1-3. I would assume his competition was in the sub 1 rating catagory but I would still think it would require more than an 8 HP to knock out your opponents that quickly.

Thanks for the comments so far, hopefully some others will chime in their thoughts.

[Mudster]

Often, certain fighters have stats that seem like they wouldn't belong to a fighter but they give the most accurate results. Look at Joe Grimm(I hope this is the fighter I'm thinking of). His fighting skills were most likely in the crapper, but he still has a fairly high rating. Why? Because that's the only way to make him difficult to knock out. If the results are accurate, that's all that matters.

[LeeSkye]

Don't forget about your 2 point and 3 point punch %'s.

They work together with the other ratings and they have a determining factor in his power abilities as well. Give a guy a ton of 3 point punches and he will knock a guy out but by total destruction over a longer period of time than a one punch artist. I think of the Manassa Mauler for what he was, a guy who swarmed you with power and destroyed you with a lot of power punches. Even if a fight lasted just one round, he attacked for the whole 3 minutes! He would not let up, something not every heavy weight could or can do. His ratings reflect that.

On the other hand, remember the older Foreman fighting Moorer? He was getting his clock cleaned until near the end of the fight that I think Moorer was winning and...BAM...one punch from George put his lights out! Old George has an HP of 9.

Two different kind of fighters, both with power, but their ratings reflect how they fought, how each fight plays out and the whole system works together to configure each fighter to get realistic results.