career stages

beekman · 09-15-2004, 10:29 AM

Hi. I just read Gunsmoke's column on aging over at Cornerwork and probably should reply there, but I thought I might get a quicker response on this board. My question has to do with active/retired status. Gunsmoke seems to be saying that career stages only affect retired fighters. Am I getting that right? I have all my fighters set to active and use career stages (which can be changed for active fighters), am I just wasting my time by changing the career stages for them?
Beekman

maxx · 09-15-2004, 12:58 PM

You can use career stages with active fighters . . . but there is one major problem. For purposes of making the career stages adjustment, the program is designed to work off of the fighter's Prime rating. For active fighters, the program will assume that the fighter's original rating is his Prime rating.

In other words, if an active fighter is at the Beginning stage of his career and you reset his career stage to Post-Prime, the game will assume that those Beginning ratings were the fighter's Prime ratings. For most fighters, though, the Beginning ratings should be significantly less than his Prime ratings. The result is that, for active fighters who are not already at Prime, the use of career stages will give undervalued ratings.

There is a long history behind all the dilemmas caused by this issue, but the end result is that most people who want to use career stages retire all active fighters and use some method of adjusting them to Prime. To help with this process, despite some reluctance Andreas created the function that retires all fighters and uses an inverse version of the game's own career stages formula to adjust to a purely fictional Prime. Although it's the method that I personally use with some modification because it is the easiest, it does open an entirely separate can of worms.

Gunsmoke · 09-16-2004, 04:48 AM

Actually Maxx as I understand it fighters who are Active can not be adjusted using the career stages as the ratings just stay the same as displayed in the fighters page.

The long and the short of it is beekman, regardless if maxx or I am correct on this it is highly advisable that you retire all the fighters you wish to use and re-rate them back to prime to use the career stages effectively.

Hope that helps,

Mark

maxx · 09-16-2004, 01:07 PM

Gunsmoke is correct. If you're actually keeping the fighter in the Active state (in other words not first retiring the active fighter) then changing career stages has no effect. The game will always just use the ratings that show up on the ratings page without making any adjustment regardless of how you define the career stage.

By retiring Active fighters you can then use career stages, but you need to deal with the non-Primes.

beekman · 09-16-2004, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the help guys, but I'm still a little confused. Let me put it this way, in my universe I'm using all fighters who are (in real life/ in the database) retired. I have converted all of them to active and am using career stages. Are the career stages taking effect?
Beekman

maxx · 09-16-2004, 05:33 PM

No, as you describe your universe career stages will have no effect. You can change them on the screen, but the change will have no effect on the outcome of your fights because every fighter is "Active."

In order to have the career stages make a difference in the fights, you need to "retire" your fighters. You then have to deal with the "Prime" issue discussed above.

beekman · 09-16-2004, 07:09 PM

Maxx,
Thanks. I went back and switched all to "prime" -- a real pain -- then let the computer switch all to retired, then went back in and adjusted career stages -- another real pain. I really don't understand why there is an option for career stages for active fighters if it has no effect. I initially made all active so that my retired (retired in my universe, that is) guys would no longer show up in the rankings, as their is an option to only rank active fighters. Now it seems to me that game option is simply useless. Very strange.
Beekman

maxx · 09-16-2004, 09:56 PM

To solve the ranking problem, here's what I did: I created 2 separate groups. One group contains the fighters who are currently fighting in my universe (I call it "Championship Boxing Council"). The other group (I call it "Retired Fighters") contains the fighters who have competed in my universe and now are officially retired. Once a fighter has finished his career, I just switch him over to the retired group. If he later makes a comeback, it's easy enough to switch him back.

When you go to the ranking screen, you can have it rank by group. So, if I select the Championship Boxing Council group it shows rankings for those fighters only & excludes the the fighters I've officially retired.

One comment you made raises a question. When you retired your fighters did you use the "Set all fighters to Retired" option that also uses the game's inverse career stage forumla to set all fighters to Prime? If so, that feature does create a few other issues you may want to deal with as far as the ratings go.

09-15-2004, 10:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
beekman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 157	career stages Hi. I just read Gunsmoke's column on aging over at Cornerwork and probably should reply there, but I thought I might get a quicker response on this board. My question has to do with active/retired status. Gunsmoke seems to be saying that career stages only affect retired fighters. Am I getting that right? I have all my fighters set to active and use career stages (which can be changed for active fighters), am I just wasting my time by changing the career stages for them? Beekman

09-15-2004, 12:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	You can use career stages with active fighters . . . but there is one major problem. For purposes of making the career stages adjustment, the program is designed to work off of the fighter's Prime rating. For active fighters, the program will assume that the fighter's original rating is his Prime rating. In other words, if an active fighter is at the Beginning stage of his career and you reset his career stage to Post-Prime, the game will assume that those Beginning ratings were the fighter's Prime ratings. For most fighters, though, the Beginning ratings should be significantly less than his Prime ratings. The result is that, for active fighters who are not already at Prime, the use of career stages will give undervalued ratings. There is a long history behind all the dilemmas caused by this issue, but the end result is that most people who want to use career stages retire all active fighters and use some method of adjusting them to Prime. To help with this process, despite some reluctance Andreas created the function that retires all fighters and uses an inverse version of the game's own career stages formula to adjust to a purely fictional Prime. Although it's the method that I personally use with some modification because it is the easiest, it does open an entirely separate can of worms. Last edited by maxx : 09-15-2004 at 02:28 PM.

09-16-2004, 04:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gunsmoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 945	Actually Maxx as I understand it fighters who are Active can not be adjusted using the career stages as the ratings just stay the same as displayed in the fighters page. The long and the short of it is beekman, regardless if maxx or I am correct on this it is highly advisable that you retire all the fighters you wish to use and re-rate them back to prime to use the career stages effectively. Hope that helps, Mark __________________ Cornerwork the Title Bout Championship Boxing fansite!

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09-16-2004, 01:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	Gunsmoke is correct. If you're actually keeping the fighter in the Active state (in other words not first retiring the active fighter) then changing career stages has no effect. The game will always just use the ratings that show up on the ratings page without making any adjustment regardless of how you define the career stage. By retiring Active fighters you can then use career stages, but you need to deal with the non-Primes.

09-16-2004, 02:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
beekman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 157	Thanks for the help guys, but I'm still a little confused. Let me put it this way, in my universe I'm using all fighters who are (in real life/ in the database) retired. I have converted all of them to active and am using career stages. Are the career stages taking effect? Beekman

09-16-2004, 05:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	No, as you describe your universe career stages will have no effect. You can change them on the screen, but the change will have no effect on the outcome of your fights because every fighter is "Active." In order to have the career stages make a difference in the fights, you need to "retire" your fighters. You then have to deal with the "Prime" issue discussed above.

09-16-2004, 07:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
beekman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 157	Maxx, Thanks. I went back and switched all to "prime" -- a real pain -- then let the computer switch all to retired, then went back in and adjusted career stages -- another real pain. I really don't understand why there is an option for career stages for active fighters if it has no effect. I initially made all active so that my retired (retired in my universe, that is) guys would no longer show up in the rankings, as their is an option to only rank active fighters. Now it seems to me that game option is simply useless. Very strange. Beekman

09-16-2004, 09:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 711	To solve the ranking problem, here's what I did: I created 2 separate groups. One group contains the fighters who are currently fighting in my universe (I call it "Championship Boxing Council"). The other group (I call it "Retired Fighters") contains the fighters who have competed in my universe and now are officially retired. Once a fighter has finished his career, I just switch him over to the retired group. If he later makes a comeback, it's easy enough to switch him back. When you go to the ranking screen, you can have it rank by group. So, if I select the Championship Boxing Council group it shows rankings for those fighters only & excludes the the fighters I've officially retired. One comment you made raises a question. When you retired your fighters did you use the "Set all fighters to Retired" option that also uses the game's inverse career stage forumla to set all fighters to Prime? If so, that feature does create a few other issues you may want to deal with as far as the ratings go.