DLH\Hopkins: Something "fishy" is going on

[thebadguy]

There are - as Larry Merchant said - some very strange circumstances going into this fight. Is the FIX in? I guess we will find out in the next hour or two. Why are the two judges who were involved in the Sturm fiasco involved in this fight? Why is Margaret Goodman refusing to be involved? And what the hell is with this cut on DLH's hand? I know my painkillers pretty well, I used to be addicted to them (Shhh!)... and Lidocaine is NOT a narcotic. Lidocaine is what the dentist gives you to numb your tooth. So why the fuss over it? It does nothing to enhance or decrease performance in any way.

[Bam Bam]

Originally Posted by thebadguy

There are - as Larry Merchant said - some very strange circumstances going into this fight. Is the FIX in? I guess we will find out in the next hour or two. Why are the two judges who were involved in the Sturm fiasco involved in this fight? Why is Margaret Goodman refusing to be involved? And what the hell is with this cut on DLH's hand? I know my painkillers pretty well, I used to be addicted to them (Shhh!)... and Lidocaine is NOT a narcotic. Lidocaine is what the dentist gives you to numb your tooth. So why the fuss over it? It does nothing to enhance or decrease performance in any way.

yea tons of fishy stuff so far,,,why the Sturm judges get this fight is beyond me...Kenny Bayless is decent though

[thebadguy]

That was perfectly staged. The temper tantrum that Oscar threw, the pounding of his gloves on the mat. All of that, after a bull$h!t shot to the body. I have watched so many fights its impossible to count them... but out of all of them, I can honestly say that the probability of a "fix" has never been higher in my mind. Especially because of the pre-fight circumstances... as well as a very strange punch and outcome. I hope I am wrong.

[Bam Bam]

i was thinking the same thing,,,but Im trying not to be paranoid...it was certainly a lame knockdown, I was watching the replay closely looking for the phantom punch,,,,,I guess that bodyshot was "right on the button" as Oscar would say...

[mh2365]

I can't help but think it was fixed. I had it 4-4 going into the 9th. At first the way Oscar was grimacing in pain I thought he broke a rib but then when I saw the replay it was a glancing blow. Hopkins hit Oscar with much harder shots than that.

Lamest Knockout Ever.

[PittPanther]

I couldn't disagree more. That punch landed, it was solid as well as spectacular.

You get hit like that and your done.

Give Hopkins his due.

[PittPanther]

By the way if it was fixed, wouldn't it be fixed for Oscar? Conspiracy theories aside, he's the more marketable guy.

Who is next for Hopkins? Obviously there are two opponents: a jump up to possibly 168 and fight Tarver (if he's willing to come down), and, more than likely, a rematch with Trinidad at 160.

While both fights are marketable, neither would draw the kind of money that De La Hoya vs. Trinidad II would.

Another quick point, Hopkins is a true "indie" in every sense of the word. He's avoided big promotors for a reason. If he was associated with King, then your argument might have some legs to stand on, but he's not.

Just seems like a bunch of smoke being blown.

[Bam Bam]

Originally Posted by PittPanther

By the way if it was fixed, wouldn't it be fixed for Oscar? Conspiracy theories aside, he's the more marketable guy.

Who is next for Hopkins? Obviously there are two opponents: a jump up to possibly 168 and fight Tarver (if he's willing to come down), and, more than likely, a rematch with Trinidad at 160.

While both fights are marketable, neither would draw the kind of money that De La Hoya vs. Trinidad II would.

Another quick point, Hopkins is a true "indie" in every sense of the word. He's avoided big promotors for a reason. If he was associated with King, then your argument might have some legs to stand on, but he's not.

Just seems like a bunch of smoke being blown.

yea it wasnt a fix, I have a feeling the judges and crowd were ready to help Oscar win that fight, he just didn't make it to the end,,plus not a Don King production, good point

[LeeSkye]

I'm not going to ascribe anything to any conspiracy theories but I have a question.

How many times have you seen a knockout by way of a body shot? I've been watching for a looooong time and I don't recall that many.

I can remember when Roy Jones Jr threw a crunching body shot that dropped Virgil Hill for the count and everyone was remarking at how unusual it was and how it proved Roy's greatness.

Then we get another fight where Arturo Gatti knocks out previously undefeated Leonard Doring with a left hook to the body. Remarkable they said.

Now we have Bernard Hopkins knocking out De La Hoya with a body shot to the liver!

How many previous Championship matches have you seen that was won by a body blow knockout?

How many "greatest knockouts in history" shows have you seen that highlighted knockouts by body shots?

Kill the body and the head will die was the advice. This usually meant that you slowed your opponent down, got him to drop his hands and then attacked the head to KO him.

I guess now we say "Never mind the head - hit him in the liver!"

I'm not sure what the answer is but maybe I've been missing something all these years?

[Rasmuth]

Mickey Ward was the king of the body punch knockout...certain fighters somehow have the ability to achieve this kind of KO...others can't. I remember seeing a highlight reel of Mickey Ward's bodyshot knockdowns and KO's....extremely entertaining.

[jofre]

Not an official title fight... but one hell of a body shot!

[maxx]

Having been hit by a body shot to the liver before, I can personally attest to how painful it can be. Your legs just go out from under you (like DLH's did) and you're in paralyzing pain for about 10-15 seconds. After that, it's a little sore but you feel basically fine.

Now, I'd been hit with plenty of body shots before that were a lot harder and more solid than the liver shot I took. But, let me tell you, there is a sweet spot and when you get nailed there it doesn't have to be the hardest punch to hurt like hell.

As to why it doesn't happen all that often, first, it's not an easy shot. To really get to the liver, the shot usually needs to hit further around the side (notice how BH's punch kind of looped). Also, I remember being told by my trainer that the liver is situated or tilted slightly differently in everybody. So, as a result, the "button" on DLH would be in a slightly different spot then the "button" on maxx.

[sabotai]

2 big reasons why you don't see many KOs by body shots.

1) They're not marketable, so they don't get included in the "great knockouts" highlights. The casual fan likes to see people getting knocked out by a head shot, so that's what they package.

2) A lot of boxers just don't go to the body well. They focus on going to the head and it seems like a lot of boxers are not trained to go to the body well. That's why you really only see the good to great boxers knock someone out by a body blow, because the average boxers on down just don't go to the body (which is what a lot of the times makes them average or worse).

[thebadguy]

I guess after further thought, I have to reverse my previous comments. Several years ago, I was sparring with a friend of mine and I threw a shot to his body that just happened to land on his liver and sent him down in alot of pain. I remember thinking... "how in the hell did I do that? the punch wasn't even that hard!" So I guess there is a "sweet spot" that can cripple a fighter for at least 10 seconds, even though the blow may not seem that devestating. Hopkins is a great champion and deserves to get alot of credit for what he did last night. It was an historic victory and Hopkins will be rated right up there with Hagler. It is very unprobable, but the best way for Hopkins to go out would be to avenge his loss to RJJ. I still have Roy as the best P4P fighter, and quite frankly I am getting tired of listening to Tarver claim otherwise. RJJ and Bernard Hopkins are the two best fighters on the planet... PERIOD!

Another historic thing happened today... "thebadguy" admitted he was wrong for the first time on this forum. Whouda thunk it? But... you still need people like me.

[Bam Bam]

Originally Posted by Bam Bam

i was thinking the same thing,,,but Im trying not to be paranoid...it was certainly a lame knockdown, I was watching the replay closely looking for the phantom punch,,,,,I guess that bodyshot was "right on the button" as Oscar would say...

well, while we're being honest, Ill take back what I said about a lame Ko. From a fans perspective(and someone who bought the fight), the KO was a little anti-climactic, but all said, Hopkins is a great bodypuncher, and at that point in the fight I was beginning to grimace everytime Oscar got tagged, Hopkins was coming on strong, was really hitting hard,,it was a fitting end, not sure if it was a liver shot,,or if he got the wind knocked out of him..he seemed fine a few minutes later

BTW- Larry Merchant was gospel during that broadcast

[almo]

Originally Posted by Rasmuth

Mickey Ward was the king of the body punch knockout...certain fighters somehow have the ability to achieve this kind of KO...others can't. I remember seeing a highlight reel of Mickey Ward's bodyshot knockdowns and KO's....extremely entertaining.

ABSOLUTLEY!!!

Mickey Ward vs Alphonso Sanchez ( 16-0-0 at the time) 4/12/97 strangely enough on the De La Hoya/Whitaker undercard!!

Ward lost EVERY second of that fight until Round 7 when he threw a liver shot. Sanchez went down and did not get up for 5 minutes. In fact...I am going to pull up the video on that one. If I remember correctly, Ward landed 15 punches in the WHOLE fight!! Liver Punches can be damaging if thrown correctly!!

[PittPanther]

Lee--

I think there a plenty of examples to pull from. I remember reading a quote one time by Ray Robinson in which he said his favorite punch was a left hook to the liver.

JC Superstar was another guy that was a murderous body puncher. McCallum as well.

[Dave1877]

I bought the fight, and I was not disappointed with the way the fight ended. I certainly didn't expect it to happen, and Oscar going down like that put me on the edge of my seat for sure.

[LeeSkye]

I remember the fights you guys have mentioned and I guess it does happen more than not. Just seemed so strange to have so many prominent body KOs recently.

Another historic thing happened today... "thebadguy" admitted he was wrong for the first time on this forum. Whouda thunk it? But... you still need people like me.

Now THAT is a liver shot that will paralyze all of us at the same time!

[GForce]

Trying to remember who it was, but Trinidad KO'd someone with a body shot a couple of years back.

GH