UPDATE: September 26th, 2004

[Jim Trunzo]

I read with interest, concern and some dismay all of the posts under several of the other threads, including all 20 under the thread concerning news of the patch.

I would have thought that it was obvious that the official patch was close to being released, due to the playtesting threads for the patch. I'll attempt to address the concerns to the best of my ability. I am not speaking for OOTP Development nor am I committing Andreas or Aurelio or even Tom and I to anything. I'll simply tell you the truth as I see it:

1. The final patch should be out no later than October 8th. It will include the materials that we stated - the infamous "he" commentary errors will no longer occur; title belt pictures will be available; the new scoring routines will be in place; fixed bugs in foul/disqualification routines; fixed title names edit bug; fight scheduler can now be stopped using the 'cancel' button; and numerous other small items. It will also address the "swelling" issue, basically reducing both the rate of swelling and the affect swelling has on ending a fight. Histories will also receive a minor tweak to provide some of the desired changes requested by gamers. This is not an all-inclusive list!!!!! It simply highlights the major areas addressed.

2. The patch WILL NOT include the ground-up redo of the fouls and cuts procedures. I can't begin to explain how complex these routines will now become to provide the realism you have demanded and deserve. As mentioned in other posts, just the cut routine alone will include fourteen possible cut locations, each with a severity level and each with a rating to determine the cut's potential to prematurely end a fight. Additionally, there will be a greatly increased chance for a cut to re-open rather than a new cut occur. The foul routine will be cross-indexed with punch types, opponent's foul rating (and number of fouls) and will also, in some instances, weaken the fighter who was fouled, to the benefit of the fouler! These changes need a tremendous amount of play-testing because they have such a strong impact on the overall fight. These will be part of Title Bout Championship Boxing II.

3. Title Bout Championship Boxing II will be a significant step up in many, many areas, beyond the new cuts and fouls routines. In theory, we hope that it is the be-all and end-all in the straight boxing simulation area. I personally believe that TBCB II will be ready by the end of October and see absolutely no reason why it would ever have to go past the 2nd week in November. However, in all fairness to Andreas and Aurelio, what often seems simple to me can become very difficult for them; conversely, some changes that seem like they would be extremely tough to program turn out to be relatively simple. We have the easy job of coming up with concepts, ideas and algorithms. Those guys have the thankless and tougher job of turning those ideas into a workable program. I repeat - I don't speak for them.

4. Title Bout Role-Playing is being worked on, simultaneously with TBCB 2. The game will be available sometime in the first quarter of 2005, with a bit of luck. You have to understand the enormity of what we are trying to do. It's easy to be on the outside and say, "add this, have that, do this!" Just trying to create an artificial intelligence to properly schedule all fighters not being handled by a "live" manager is a massive undertaking! It has to factor in what fighters are under contract to whom, whether or not the fighter is serving a medical suspension due to a prior knockout, whether or not the fighter is in jail, whether or not the fighter is in the middle of a contract dispute, whether or not this A.I. manager will agree to terms, whether or not an injury has occured prior to the assigned fight date, etc. and it has to do this for literally thousands of fighters! Then there's the fighter creation module, the aging module, the managerial module, the training module, the "special occurance" module, the daily boxing newspaper, the out-of-the-ring occurences, and on and on. This is an overwhelming attempt by four people to do something that other companies assign dozens of people to - each with his own special area. We're trying our best, really.

5. Before anyone gets a nose hair out of place, I'll repeat what I've said before: there will be upgrade pricing all along the way. Those who own TBCB 1 will have a choice to upgrade at a special price to TBCB 2. Those who own either TBCB1 or 2 will have individual upgrade prices to TBRP. For example: If you purchased Title Bout Championship Boxing for $100.00, you might be able to upgrade to TBCB 2 for only $35.00. If you didn't own TBCB I, TBCB II might cost you $150.00. If you own TBCB1 and didn't upgrade to TBCB2, you might have an upgrade price of $70.00 to Titlebout Roleplaying. If you had already spent $35.00 to upgrade to TBCB2, you upgrade price to TBRP, might only be $25.00. THESE NUMBERS ARE INTENTIONALLY AND RIDICULOUSLY HIGH (although my cynical side still tells me that someone will immediately spread the rumor that Title Bout costs $150.00!!! LOL). The point is that we will make sure that anyone who upgrades each step of the way, not only receives an even break with those who don't, they will also be rewarded with an overall lesser price if possible.

5. The recent fighter update did not include last night's shockers, Roy Jones getting stopped again and Mark Johnson getting taken out with a body shot after seemingly being the dominant fighter. However, those fighters will be updated soon and placed in the final patch. A "prime" Lennox Lewis is also a possibility for that patch, along with a "prime" Tito Trinidad if he fights, loses and re-retires.

Finally, I have to let loose with a "minor" rant. This is aimed only at those who insist on moaning and crying and bitching without substance or logic. Where is your faith? Where is your compassion? What is wrong with some of you? You people who predict doomsday because SI has entered the picture need to give Markus and SI a chance. OOTP 7 will be an excellent product, with even more attention being paid to it because, as a retail product, it will have to stand up to even more scrutiny.

As far as the SI deal impacting on Title Bout, it will, certainly. However, the impact will be positive. For one thing, it will allow for the possibility of online play! Will it delay release times? Nah, we should have both TBout products done before Andreas is pulled in too many directions.

Concerning Title Bout itself, frankly, I'm proud of the game. It's got some warts, still. But it's better than anything before it and is "this close" to being the special simulation that we've always intended. It's the kind of program that evolves. New programmers, new ideas, new programming tools create unforseen problems and results. Those things need fixed and they are being fixed. I'm sorry that some of you seem to think that everything you demand can be done overnight. I wish they could but things just don't work that way. If it were so easy to do a boxing simulation, there would be dozens of them around, just like there are for other sports. However, boxing demands educated speculation, not pure stats, to make it go. The interplay of the ratings - which so MANY of you REFUSE to understand, no matter how often I preach about it - is far more involved than in other sports: control factor, hitting power, punching accuracy, current condition of fighters, strategy being used and the opponent's defense, chin, susceptibility to cuts, and on and on, have to be considered EVERY SINGLE TIME A PUNCH IS THROWN!

I'm kind of sick of seeing the game run down. It's like someone picking on you kid. They may not be perfect but they are yours and you love them, quirks and all. Yes, it can be and should be and WILL be improved. But it's not a bad game; acutally it's dang close to being a great game in my biased opinion. It's funny - the more ambitious we get (because you demand it), the tougher the game becomes to retain its accuracy. The more factors introduced, the more factors that must be addressed in every instance. Those of you who bad-mouth the product never point out the good aspects of the game or what it includes, you just whine about what's missing. It's like being married to Jessica Simpson or Halle Berry or some other beautiful woman an moaning because she has a mole on her left hip. Sure it's a flaw if you want to emphasize it but, good God, man! What about the rest of the package?

The swelling is an important issue that needs to be addressed quickly. It strongly affects the outcome of too many fights. The scoring can be quirky and needs to be address for the very same reason. And they have been, as you'll soon see. But some of these other "burning" issues": Lennox Lewis has no prime rating so it must mean that these Title Bout people SUCK! Forget about the other 4000+ fighters who do have ratings. There's no picture of a title belt changing hands! Forget about the fact that you can input dozens of pictures for a single fighter if you so choose. We'll try to get to EVERYONE'S concerns, honest, honest, honest . . . .but just accept the fact that we are a SMALL company, with limited assets and manpower. And our priorities aren't always yours. Especially considering that your voice, no matter how loud you make in on this board, is one in 2000.

I swear on everything that means anything to me, I'm not trying to pick a fight, cause controversy, flame anyone, whatever. Just be fair. I'm trying to be open and fair with this post. Maybe I've failed. I don't know. Frankly, all of this is just a bit confusing to me.

If worse comes to worse, I wish the best of luck finding another boxing game that suits you better; or I wish you the best of luck designing your own. If you can do it better, please do. Then I'll buy your game and enjoy it!

[Dave1877]

I personally believe that TBCB II will be ready by the end of October and see absolutely no reason why it would ever have to go past the 2nd week in November.

That is so much earlier than I expected. If a patch for TBCB 1 is out early October, and TBCB 2 is out at the end of October, just how much more can be added in such a short space of time? How big of a step up will TBCB 2 be? I know you say it will be a big step up but any details?


Thanks for your comments Jim bytheway. Personally I've enjoyed the game very much so far but what was becoming a bit ominous was that certain questions seemed to be 'dodged' by yourselves, leaving us in a situation where all we could do was predict what was going on.

One thing is for sure, TBCB is by far the best boxing simulation out there right now. No one would doubt that. But as with everything it can be improved and since it's been many months since the last patch we were all discovering little things that needed addressing. I'm glad you are aware of the swelling issue, because this is something that almost stopped me playing the game. With the swelling tweaked a bit, TBCB will be the complete game for me. I hope that TBCB 2 will be ground breaking because I can't see many people forking out any sum of money for what could be seen as 'just another patch'.

The RP game is also coming on quicker than a lot of us thought, if you can stick to your early 2005 release date then that would be a result, but obviously only when it is totally ready will you be able to put it up for sale.

Lastly, a tip from me would simply be to interact with the community a bit more. Reassure your customers what is going on, give them some information about where their money is going. In the older times there seemed to be much more communication between developers and fans, it would be great if that could happen again. I've got faith in the company to produce some great boxing games over the next 6-12 months, let's hope the expectations can be met!

[Tiger Fan]

Jim
Thank you for an extremely detailed update. I look forward to what the future will hold for TBCB. I also can look forward to hopefully not having to skip through any more stupid posts about how a lack of an update on an update's timetable is akin to ripping off customers.

For what it is worth I feel that TBCB in it's present state is more than worth every penny I paid for it. Sure it has some things that could be improved upon but what piece of software doesn't.

Thank you again for the update and a truly great game.

[thebadguy]

Isn't there already a prime Lennox Lewis? There is on my game! He is retired, in his prime and his overall rating is 10 (which is about right). Am I just seeing things? I am almost positive that you guys already added a "prime" Lewis.

There are several things that COULD be added, but all in all it is a GREAT game. I am having a ball with my universe, after finally adjusting all of the active fighter ratings. I do - as you said Jim - keep in mind all of the good things rather than focus on the negative. If I was married to Jennifer Connelly... she could have a disgusting growth on her butt... and I would still think she is beautiful.

The only thing that I would REALLY like to see is another rating called "Heart", or something to that effect.... a rating that basically makes a fighters Killer Instinct kick in under completely opposite circumstances than it does right now. I think that would add alot of excitement.

[erickdamac]

Jim if we hated your game . Why would we be on this site writing and demanding updates? Its because we care jim, Its like punishing your child, you see them cryen you want to say oh ok your off punishment but you have to stand your ground because you love them, And you know in the long run they will learn from the mistakes they made. We love the game, I love the game Im playing it right now, but of course we want to see the best from the game and we want the company to be the best it can be.

With all that being said, I cant wait for TBCB II and I cant wait for the new patch lol I CANT WAIT FOR TBCB ROLE PLAY VERSION!!! And once you feel ready to release them I'll be fine with that, All We ask jim is to hear from the almighty JIM! lmao the Boxing simulation GOD! Good luck and Hope to hear from you soon.

Your right we do point out the bad too much and dont mention the good which Im sorry for doing that because I play the game everyday (well just about lol)



" If I was married to Jennifer Connelly... she could have a disgusting growth on her butt... and I would still think she is beautiful." By: Thebadguy

Well I dont know about all that im a body man myself, but I get your point lol.

[Jim Trunzo]

Hey, thanks for taking the post in the spirit it was meant! I fully realize that the vast majority of you really like the game and appreciate the efforts being made. HOWEVER, I also realize that you are 100% right that there still needs to be some improvements. I'm very anxious for the patch to go live because it addresses two major issues - the scoring and swelling. The swelling will also be looked at for a major overdo (similar to the cuts) for TB2.

I REALLY appreciate the encourgement and positive feedback. I will make an effort to stay more focused and active on the boards. I say that and I say that and I mean it when I do and then I get so caught up in researching material for redesign, I simply don't carry through.

I'm also very pumped for TB2 because I think that by that time everything promised for TB1 will have been delivered and more. Then TB2 can IMPROVE on what is there and add major factors that have been requested.

I think that you will all be very pleasantly surprised by how low the update cost is going to be and, again, I promise that the content will be worth the price. The nice thing is that anyone who is hesitant or simply disagrees can wait until TBRP comes out with everything added and pay whatever the price is for those who didn't upgrade to TB2. Everyone wins.

Thanks again.

[Gunsmoke]

Isn't there already a prime Lennox Lewis? There is on my game! He is retired, in his prime and his overall rating is 10 (which is about right). Am I just seeing things? I am almost positive that you guys already added a "prime" Lewis.

BG, I'm pretty sure that the prime Lennox rating was a consensus of sorts between all of us on the boards from about 6-8 months ago... somebody else with some non-alzheimers effected memory will probably know for sure.

This all sounds very good Jim, I'm impressed with the timescales that the new version of TB and the RP game are on. I just hope your not setting yourself up for a fall with those indicative dates

Mark

[shane6969]

Thanks for the update Jim, much appreciated.

Shane.

[PittPanther]

Buck up campers: literally.

Jim, your post really dumbfounds me. No, seriously. Truely. I would go on, but my useless blabber would only go on to cause further damage.

[cubedrum]

The prime retired Lennox Lewis was a part of the official May fighter update. From someone who keeps track of this sort of thing and adds them to the custom DB.

Cube

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Jim Trunzo

It's like being married to Jessica Simpson or Halle Berry or some other beautiful woman an moaning because she has a mole on her left hip.

This reminded of one of my favorite Bob and Tom quotes. As Bob always says "Show me the most beautiful girl in the world and I'll show you a guy who is tired of banging her."

Also meant to say thanks for the update. I would say I am shocked to hear that TBCB II is that close to being released. I didn't expect it until next year. Just make sure our databases can transfer so our universes can continue.

[javier_83]

We are going to wait the time you need to make this patch and the others games

[Cap]

I have a webpage devoted to TBCB. If I hated the game the page would not exist. I've always been a bit of a perfectionist. TBCB is great. Read most of my posts. It can be greater. Get rid of the weird "He" commentary. Reduce the number of KOs due to jabs. The rankings are broken, but I can live with them for now. When I see my champions and the Title Belt, I'll be happy.

Jim, your problem is that your game has stoked the imaginations of the people who bought it and they want to share their ideas with you and the rest of the community. That's all your fault.

Cap

[crusadecat]

I gotta say that I find enough in the game to enjoy and continue to enjoy since it was released. It seems weird to say but I've had one universe or another going on in Tb since i was around 11. When I make any suggestions its always from the standpoint of what would be the ideal boxing game to ever exist and I work down from there. One day I hope I live to see the 3-D holograms of Rocky Marciano vs. Lennox Lewis do battle. Until that time comes this game does the job of engaging the theatre of the mind. All of the previously discussed adds will certainly be additions to what I see as a legend already. If this game had never come out or its predecessor I'd still be enjoying the board game which I will still bring out to tinker with every once in a while.

[Bonedwarf]

I'd love to get a copy of the board game, but when I had my chance to get it, I wasn't interested. (ARGHHH!)

I'm one of the SI doomsayers. The reason I'm a doomsayer is because A) I've followed SI from the beginning, and IMO they are NOT the company they once were, and B) I've seen what they did to Eastside Hockey Manager.

I do have one question regarding TB2. I just wonder if all the boxers made for TB1 can be imported, and if boxers created in TB2 could be imported into TB1. (Since I don't know whether I'll be upgrading.)

[LeeSkye]

playtesting threads for the patch.

Must have missed those.


I still have the board game sitting behind me on a shelf [treasured keepsake].
I look forward to the patch and will buy TBCB II [although $150 is a little steep-I'll just have the kids miss their lunch for a while ] and TBRP when that comes out.

I understand some of the consternation as well as I've seen some beloved games fall by the wayside as well. But one thing I'm sure of - the Trunzos will keep on advancing their baby even if they end up somewhere else-which I know won't happen but I'd be following along anyway. [Note: stalking laws do not apply in this case].

Thanks for the update.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Bonedwarf

II'm one of the SI doomsayers. The reason I'm a doomsayer is because A) I've followed SI from the beginning, and IMO they are NOT the company they once were, and B) I've seen what they did to Eastside Hockey Manager.

You've said that a couple of times now. What, precisely, is it that you think they 'did' to Eastside Hockey Manager?

[Bonedwarf]

You mean aside from putting no thought whatsoever into the interface, and seemingly just slapping it onto the CM3 engine? I've played the game, God knows I've tried to like it. Maybe to a non-CM3 player it'd be okay, but to use an almost identical interface means the game has no clear identity of it's own, and the CM interface and engine does NOT, IMO, produce a good game of hockey.

My favourite hockey sim is still HLS2 from Bethesda. Sadly that's a DOS title though.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Bonedwarf

You mean aside from putting no thought whatsoever into the interface, and seemingly just slapping it onto the CM3 engine? I've played the game, God knows I've tried to like it. Maybe to a non-CM3 player it'd be okay, but to use an almost identical interface means the game has no clear identity of it's own, and the CM interface and engine does NOT, IMO, produce a good game of hockey.

The comment I see most frequently about the interface is "I didn't like it at first, but after playing for a few hours I'm happy with it." Sorry you didn't give it that much of a chance.

[Boxingnut]

My favourite hockey sim is still HLS2 from Bethesda. Sadly that's a DOS title though.[/quote]

Get dosbox and you will be able to play it!!