Overrated/Underrated

[Jim Trunzo]

For your consideration: Here's a short list of fighters that I consider overrated and underrated. Feel free to flame my choices in either category I'm interested in your opinion on the topic!

Overrated:

1. John Ruiz - nice guy, wonderful person, C- heavyweight

2. Acelino Freitas - overrated doesn't mean no talent! Just not the destroyer we all thought him to be.

3. Ricardo Mayorga - great entertainer, big punch, solid chin! No defense, one-dimensional, very beatable.

4. Zab Judah - brilliant handspeed, undisciplined, more flash than substance, and questionable chin.

5. Artur Grigorian - has compiled a 36-1 (21 kos) against opponent's my sainted mother could beat, and she's in her 70's.

6. Felix Sturm - underrated going into his bout against De la Hoya; overrated after it. Sturm is a nice solid boxer with minimal power, who happened to look good against an unmotivated, marginally in-shape, overconfident Oscar de la Hoya (who never should have moved to middleweight in the first place - except to collect 30 million dollars!)

Underrated:

1. Cory Spinks - lack of punch and cautious style will never make him a household name, even among boxing fans. However, Spinks knows how to fight, stays within his limits, and maximizes his strengths.

2. Antonio Margarito - looked very ordinary in his fight at superwelterweight and proved that he doesn't belong in that division. He took his chances at a title and lost to average-at-best Daniel Santos. However, as a welterweight, Margarito would be no worse than even money against any fighter in the division, including Spinks, Forrest, Judah and Mayorga.

3. Arturo Gatti - he brought this upon himself, but Gatti is still thought of as simply a blood and guts kind of guy. No denying that he certainly reverts to that state at times and in a crunch, I have no doubt Gatti would sacrifice the last once of blood in his body to get one good shot in. However, Gatti's boxing skills still aren't appreciated. These aren't new skills! They are simply skills that Buddy McGirt has unearthed and polished and emphasized. You're kidding yourself if you think that Floyd Mayweather would blow Gatti out of the ring, in a lopsided affair. I'd still pick Mayweather to outbox Gatti, but it would be a very competitive bout, especially if Mayweather's ego got the better of him and he decided to trade with Gatti on occasion.

4. Winky Wright - the guy has lost 3 times officially but a strong argument can be made that he should be undefeated. Winning a title doesn't seem to have raised his profile much, even though Wright has modified his style and become a more aggressive fighter who actually outfought rugged Fernando Vargas on the inside! Right now, I'd take Wright over Mosley, Oscar, Spinks, Vargas, Mayorga and just about any other fighter in his division, the one above him and the one below him. His toughest fight? I'd put money on Kassim Ouma and I still think Wright has enough left to beat him at this stage.

5. Ricky Hatton - easily dismissed as a face-first, one-dimensional brawler with a decent punch, Hatton's last few fights have revealed a bit more about this guy. His recent step in class includes wins over rugged Carlos Vilches, tricky Aldo Rios, and veterans Joe Hutchinson, Dennis Pederson and Vince Phillips. The fact that Vilches, Tackie and Phillips all took him the 12 round distance is actual a plus. Hatton learned more in those bouts than in all his quick stoppage wins. And we know that Hatton can go the distance, stay strong and still take out guys that he should - like Pederson and Rios.

Your thoughts?

[Bam Bam]

Originally Posted by Jim Trunzo

For your consideration: Here's a short list of fighters that I consider overrated and underrated. Feel free to flame my choices in either category I'm interested in your opinion on the topic!

Overrated:

1. John Ruiz - nice guy, wonderful person, C- heavyweight

2. Acelino Freitas - overrated doesn't mean no talent! Just not the destroyer we all thought him to be.

3. Ricardo Mayorga - great entertainer, big punch, solid chin! No defense, one-dimensional, very beatable.

4. Zab Judah - brilliant handspeed, undisciplined, more flash than substance, and questionable chin.

5. Artur Grigorian - has compiled a 36-1 (21 kos) against opponent's my sainted mother could beat, and she's in her 70's.

6. Felix Sturm - underrated going into his bout against De la Hoya; overrated after it. Sturm is a nice solid boxer with minimal power, who happened to look good against an unmotivated, marginally in-shape, overconfident Oscar de la Hoya (who never should have moved to middleweight in the first place - except to collect 30 million dollars!)

Underrated:

1. Cory Spinks - lack of punch and cautious style will never make him a household name, even among boxing fans. However, Spinks knows how to fight, stays within his limits, and maximizes his strengths.

2. Antonio Margarito - looked very ordinary in his fight at superwelterweight and proved that he doesn't belong in that division. He took his chances at a title and lost to average-at-best Daniel Santos. However, as a welterweight, Margarito would be no worse than even money against any fighter in the division, including Spinks, Forrest, Judah and Mayorga.

3. Arturo Gatti - he brought this upon himself, but Gatti is still thought of as simply a blood and guts kind of guy. No denying that he certainly reverts to that state at times and in a crunch, I have no doubt Gatti would sacrifice the last once of blood in his body to get one good shot in. However, Gatti's boxing skills still aren't appreciated. These aren't new skills! They are simply skills that Buddy McGirt has unearthed and polished and emphasized. You're kidding yourself if you think that Floyd Mayweather would blow Gatti out of the ring, in a lopsided affair. I'd still pick Mayweather to outbox Gatti, but it would be a very competitive bout, especially if Mayweather's ego got the better of him and he decided to trade with Gatti on occasion.

4. Winky Wright - the guy has lost 3 times officially but a strong argument can be made that he should be undefeated. Winning a title doesn't seem to have raised his profile much, even though Wright has modified his style and become a more aggressive fighter who actually outfought rugged Fernando Vargas on the inside! Right now, I'd take Wright over Mosley, Oscar, Spinks, Vargas, Mayorga and just about any other fighter in his division, the one above him and the one below him. His toughest fight? I'd put money on Kassim Ouma and I still think Wright has enough left to beat him at this stage.

5. Ricky Hatton - easily dismissed as a face-first, one-dimensional brawler with a decent punch, Hatton's last few fights have revealed a bit more about this guy. His recent step in class includes wins over rugged Carlos Vilches, tricky Aldo Rios, and veterans Joe Hutchinson, Dennis Pederson and Vince Phillips. The fact that Vilches, Tackie and Phillips all took him the 12 round distance is actual a plus. Hatton learned more in those bouts than in all his quick stoppage wins. And we know that Hatton can go the distance, stay strong and still take out guys that he should - like Pederson and Rios.

Your thoughts?

I agree with these Jim, but with a few exceptions.

First, Im not sure how much credit Ruiz gets at the moment anyway, I think he's on most ppl's "crap" list. I certainly don't rate him high.

Winky Wright is definately underated...

I disagree that Gatti is underated. I actually think he is overated due to the fact that he's a crowd favorite and very exciting. But against world class competition he just doesn't cut(oscar). I don't even think Mayweather/Gatti would be competetive,,,,imo

One fighter whom you did not mention is Manny Pac,,, I think Pacq (sp) was exposed in his last fight with Marquez, despite his big punching and attack style,,,I think he's a bit amateurish...

On that note Ill go ahead and say Juan Manuel Marquez is also underated

Mayorga has been a bit of a disappointment,,,this fight with Tinidad will tell us...

Hatton may be a new face to us,,,but in England he is huge and is extremely highly rated

This was fun....

[mking55]

I have never read anything positive about John Ruiz. Granted, I don't look for every piece of information on boxing available, but in the mainstream press (TV and Newspapers), they never have anything good to say about him.

In fact, all that sticks in my mind is that if it's a Ruiz fight, count on a boring fight.

[Tosti]

Personally I don't think Hatton has the 'class' to become a universally recognised 'world champ'. From what I have seen of him there is not enough movement and anyway, he is managed by Frank Warren so there is only a slim chance that we will ever find out. I suppose you can't blame Warren as Hatton manages to draw the crowds everytime time he fights anyone, he has a large following of Manchester City football fans behind him!

[jofre]

I really like Hatton and can't understand why he isn't engaging in a high profile fight. At the IBHOF weekend I met several Hatton fans from Maanchester Eng. who were expressing the same frustration. They feel he is the real deal, but want to see him prove it in a high profile fight.

[Tosti]

I personally think it is Warren 'stringing' out Hatton's carear for as long as possible, whilst the crowds turn up and Sky pay the TV cash, Warren is happy. He doesn't seem to have much of a 'stable' at the moment.

[jofre]

That appears to be true. I think Ricky must be getting a little frustrated with all the fights that have fallen through because of Warren.

[Brooks TVB]

Hatton is way underrated, i just wanna see him prove it. I think he could take on Sharmba and Kostya. He would probably in the end get outboxed but i would guarantee he would rattle them once or twice, he has the hardest punch i have ever seen in his weightclass.

I agree with Juan Manuel Marquez being underrated, he gave Manny all he could handle in thier fight.

Gatti is underrated, i would give him a slim chance of beating Mayweather. That left hook to the body could drop anyone and we all know it. Gatti may not be the best boxer or counterpuncher but when he does time it right its gonna hurt you. Gatti is all heart(eye of the tiger: as i read from another post) and that makes him very dangerous.


Ruiz is overrated, he has limited boxing ability and very little power for a guy his size. I would like to see him throw more combinations, he could probably surprise us all with tremendous boxing skills. He has the defense, you just gotta have an offense to be considered something in boxing today.


Mayorga is overrated in my opinion, his limited skills were more apparent than ever against Tito. He has a solid punch and good chin but even the best chin does not hold up under serious attack. A good trainer might be able to teach him enough about defense to be a good fighter but right now i say he is decent.


Frietas is way overrated! I like his power and quickness but he does not know how to use it. He has limited boxing skills and a weak chin. He also has no heart, i saw that in his fight with Chico. I have been in many different sports and not one time did it ever cross my mind to quit.


Winky Wright is underrated. He is a classy fighter with good all around talent. I would not call him a slugger or boxer. He has an excellent boxing style and decent pop to his punches.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

I like Hatton, but think Mitchell would outbox him. As for Tszyu, have to see how he looks after the payoff before forming an opionion on that fight.

I feel Gatti is fairly rated, but Mayweather would outbox him and the way Arturo swells and cuts, a TKO wouldn't be out of the question. But as Brooks stated, with that hook, you never know.

Ruiz is jourmeyman at best. I don't know of anyone that truly respects him as a top HW.

Mayorga: more of a toughman contestant than boxer. Big puncher but fights head on with no defense. I'd also say he's overrated.

Frietas: I was a big fan of him until the Corrales fight. Looked to me like he saw the end coming and walked away rather than go out on his shield. He'd have to come up big in the rematch to save his reputation.

Winky is one of the best out there, and he's proved it. Mosely rematch should be interesting.

Hector Camacho Jr.: Underrated. This guy has a heart the size of the moon and a "never say die" attitude when he's in the ring. Never in a bad fight, a real blood and guts throw back to the days of old.
(Sarcasm friends, sarcasm...)

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

I like Hatton, but think Mitchell would outbox him. As for Tszyu, have to see how he looks after the payoff before forming an opionion on that fight.

I feel Gatti is fairly rated, but Mayweather would outbax him and the way Arturo swells and cuts, a TKO wouldn't be out of the question. But as Brooks stated, with that hook, you never know.

Ruiz is jourmeyman at best. I don't know of anyone that truly respects him as a top HW.

Mayorga: more of a toughman contestant than boxer. Big puncher but fights head on with no defense. I'd also say he's overrated.

Frietas: I was a big fan of him until the Corrales fight. Looked to me like he saw the end coming and walked away rather than go out on his shield. He'd have to come up big in the rematch to save his reputation.

Winky is one of the best out there, and he's proved it. Mosely rematch should be interesting.

Hector Camacho Jr.: Underrated. This guy has a heart the size of the moon and a "never say die" attitude when he's in the ring. Never in a bad fight, a real blood and guts throw back to the days of old.
(Sarcasm friends, sarcasm...)

*** How can you say that Ruiz is overrated? Over the past four years, how many months has he worn a belt? Most of them. He isn't a limited boxer as Heavyweights are concerned. Earlier in his carrer, the scouting report on Ruiz was that he had a nice jab and very good movement. Basically now, he is a plodding slugger with a decent overhand right, but name 5 heavyweights today that are better.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

Originally Posted by IceTea

*** How can you say that Ruiz is overrated?

<b>I didn't.</b>

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

***Ruiz is jourmeyman at best.

Originally Posted by IceTea

***...name 5 heavyweights today that are better.

I can give you four: Vitaly Klitschko, James Toney, Chris Byrd, Andrew Golota (in shape and somewhat sane) I wouldn't rule out Vassily Jirov either, but won't add him just yet. A fifth? The division being what it is right now, could be a toss up depending what day of the week it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those guys are "great" or "exceptional" heavyweights, just better than Ruiz (who you, yourself described as a plodding slugger), in my opinion. That's all.

For a second, I thought you were upset about my Camacho remarks!

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

<b>I didn't.</b>



I can give you four: Vitaly Klitschko, James Toney, Chris Byrd, Andrew Golota (in shape and somewhat sane) I wouldn't rule out Vassily Jirov either, but won't add him just yet. A fifth? The division being what it is right now, could be a toss up depending what day of the week it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those guys are "great" or "exceptional" heavyweights, just better than Ruiz (who you, yourself described as a plodding slugger), in my opinion. That's all.

For a second, I thought you were upset about my Camacho remarks!

*** Wlad beat Byrd, I think Ruiz would maul him to death. Not sure about Golota either. We will find that out soon. The first two I would agree with if you can find Toney healthy. Since he started lifting weights full time, he has injured his foot and torn an arm muscle. Jirov is on the way down, but is on or near the same level as Ruiz. If Jirov would have turned heavy 3 years ago, it would have been interesting. I wouldn't mind watching Barrett in with Ruiz.

MJ

[Bam Bam]

Originally Posted by Bronx Bomber 15

I like Hatton, but think Mitchell would outbox him. As for Tszyu, have to see how he looks after the payoff before forming an opionion on that fight.

I feel Gatti is fairly rated, but Mayweather would outbox him and the way Arturo swells and cuts, a TKO wouldn't be out of the question. But as Brooks stated, with that hook, you never know.

Ruiz is jourmeyman at best. I don't know of anyone that truly respects him as a top HW.

Mayorga: more of a toughman contestant than boxer. Big puncher but fights head on with no defense. I'd also say he's overrated.

Frietas: I was a big fan of him until the Corrales fight. Looked to me like he saw the end coming and walked away rather than go out on his shield. He'd have to come up big in the rematch to save his reputation.

Winky is one of the best out there, and he's proved it. Mosely rematch should be interesting.

Hector Camacho Jr.: Underrated. This guy has a heart the size of the moon and a "never say die" attitude when he's in the ring. Never in a bad fight, a real blood and guts throw back to the days of old.
(Sarcasm friends, sarcasm...)

Hector Camacho Jr lol...now there's a bust...I actually was excited about him for awhile,,,I think his daddy is even more active than him now