Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield

[thebadguy]

Well guys... It may be arrogant of me to say, but I have never met any other fight fan that has invested more emotion into Evander Holyfield's career, than myself. The Real Deal not only has provided me with the some of the most memorable moments of my life, he has given me hope, strength and determination through moments of my life that I wish weren't so memorable. My vicious divorce, my battles with drugs\alchohol, my depression that at one point hospitalized me... all the struggles in my life have at times been made easier to deal with, when I reflect on the courage, heart and faith that Evander led me to by his example, both in and out of the ring. No one, not even my teachers, friends... or even my father, have had more of an influence on my life than Evander. I had the opportunity to meet him a couple of years ago... and nothing was more of an honor.

Jim Lampley said sometime during the fight tonight that when Larry Holmes beat up Muhammad Ali, he felt as though his childhood was coming to an end. Lampley then went on to say that somewhere out there... there is someone who has been watching Evander for 20 years and they may be feeling the same way. Nothing is closer to the truth. I felt like Jim was talking specifically about me. Tonight marks the end of an era for me... even at 26 years old, I somewhat feel like a child who has lost his hero and doesn't know exactly what to do. Im at a loss.

I belong to several discussion groups on the internet, but this one is by far the best, and I also place alot of trust in many of you, whom I haven't even met. Because of that, I feel no shame in telling you guys that as I write this, there is a lump in my throat and it is getting harder to fight back the tears.

It's over... it's simply over. I guess I can take comfort in the fact that most "experts", fans and boxing publications will put Evander in the same sentences as Ali and Joe Louis. Holyfield is truly an all time great, that cannot be argued. There are no excuses for Evander other than the fact that he simply got old, and because of the many wars he fought... he aged quicker than others who went on to fight into their later years. WARS! Evander fought wars and almost always came out on top, either the first time... or the next time around. No one has provided more drama in the ring. I kept wishing that he could somehow dig deep and bring back the Holyfield of old and simply blow through Donald like he would have in his prime... but it was not to be. Love him or hate him, I think (or I know) that Evander deserves nothing but respect from us and a heartfelt salute. He is truly The Real Deal.... and nothing less.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Enjoy the rest of the evening fights guys... and thanks for giving me a place to talk about something so important to me.

[almo]

Man....I feel for you! It sucked to see that tonight!

[crusadecat]

I feel your pain, I remember watching "The Greatest of All Time" in his last few fights and wishing he could find that magic one more time. Evander has already punched his ticket to the hall of fame, I don't think he needs the money, so in my mind he should retire to save some dignity and his brains. I just don't know where in his career he can go from here.

[kenyan_cheena]

I feel the same way, badguy. I'm sure I haven't followed Holy as closely as you, but he has been my favourite heavyweight since Ali. I remember the third fight against Riddick Bowe, November 4, 1995, sitting at a pub in Gladesville (Sydney, Australia). A friend and I scoured the area to find a pub that was showing the fight, and found one minutes before the fight started. No one else there was much interested, it was a quiet Sunday afternoon, but we were on the edge of our seats. When Holy sent Bowe crashing to the canvas (round six or seven, I think), after being dominated during the early rounds, I leapt up and shouted "Oh f%#k yes!!", almost peeing myself. But he just couldn't finish Bowe off. But that fight showed Holy's determination, courage and heart.

And then of course, came Holy's finest hour, the first Tyson fight, just over a year after the Bowe fight. I really think that he should have retired after that fight. He had defeated the dominant Heavyweight of his era (before he was washed-up, as Lennox Lewis did to Tyson), and did so in emphatic style. He had nothing more to prove. But, alas, he kept fighting on, for now another nine years, sadly losing what will probably be the last three fights of his incredible career.

Still, it won't diminish him in my eyes. Not one bit. He is one of the greats.

[Jim_Kidd]

Time puts things in a different perspective. Like Ali and Holmes before him, people will eventually remember him in his prime. I curious whether or not Lewis will be rated above him by most "experts" twenty years from now. Personally, I would. I think he beat a better Tyson than Lewis did. I wouldn't put Lewis too much behind him, though. I hope he moves on to announcing or some other type of business.

To see him end up like Ali would really suck.

[maxx]

I recall my own feelings watching Ali/Holmes & Ali/Berbick. Growing up, I was the only kid in my redneck town I knew who didn't watch Ali fights just to see him get knocked out. It was tough when I finally had to admit it was over.

I thought Toney proved once and for all that Holyfield was done . . . but, regardless of how his career ends (and I hope it ended tonight so he doesn't find himself like my childhood idol), the man is a warrior.

[erickdamac]

40 years from now a father is going to tell his son, "evander was one of the greatest Heavyweights in the world" And the son is going to say He lost 8 times and only won 38 fights!

I know My father told me the same thing about walcott and that was my response, sad but true.

[thebadguy]

oh, c'mon Erick... you know exactly why that is! the sport has changed so much since the days of walcott. evander was a champion through the majority of his career, and in these times (as you well know) champions only fight once or twice a year. if holyfield had fought back in the old days... he would have 50 or 60 wins... just like Ali, and would probably have around the same amount of losses. whats the difference though? holyfield is the greatest fighter in the HW division of the last 25 years. i dont see how people can make a case for Lewis being the best... he beat the best of his generation AFTER they hit their post-prime or the end of their careers. like someone else said... evander beat a BETTER Tyson than Lewis did... twice! evander took on the best of his generation while they were at their peak... while Lewis conveniently waited in the background, waited for the perfect time, to take on the big names of his era.

BTW... did anyone else notice the dreary atmosphere, the sadness, after Evander lost last night? Even Michael Buffers voice had absolutely no enthusiasm as he announced the decision. It looked like Larry Merchant was trying hard at times to fight off tears. I thought the HBO broadcast team (especially Merchant and Jones) was very respectful of Holyfield and they recognized the intense sadness of the situation and handled it with class.

[erickdamac]

The fact is the longer he fights people are going to start rethinking his career, losing to bowe twice, Moore once, lexxon once and toney people are going to say he was a over achiever nothing more, not great, but good with alot of hear and if he continues to fight which it looks like he will he is going to retire with a record of 38-14 and then he might be consider a guy who was used as a stepping stone, I put him in my top ten in All time HW list but i bet 10-15 years from now he wouldnt be anywhere near anyone top ten list. Tyson has over 50 wins, Bowe has over fourty, Rahman has 40 ruiz has 40 lol I bet people like ruiz in 10 20 years may be higher than holyfield because kids dont understand boxing the way me and you do badguy, The normal fan dont either, Me and my friends are watching the fight and there like evander is not that great with 8 lost and only 38 wins he just got lucky with tyson, The dont understand it.


Badguy I didnt notice any sad atmosphere, I think it was like oh big surprise evander lost not so much a sad feeling.

[thebadguy]

you may be right Erick... but who gives a **** what a bunch of uneducated wannabe boxing fans think? the opinions that will count in the future will be those of reputable boxing writers and experts... and 99% will have Holyfield in the top 5 ALL TIME. Hell, The Ring already has him #3.

[erickdamac]

I love Holyfield but the man isnt a top five he is a top 10 at the lower in of the ten.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by erickdamac

The fact is the longer he fights people are going to start rethinking his career, losing to bowe twice, Moore once, lexxon once and toney people are going to say he was a over achiever nothing more, not great, but good with alot of hear and if he continues to fight which it looks like he will he is going to retire with a record of 38-14 and then he might be consider a guy who was used as a stepping stone, I put him in my top ten in All time HW list but i bet 10-15 years from now he wouldnt be anywhere near anyone top ten list. Tyson has over 50 wins, Bowe has over fourty, Rahman has 40 ruiz has 40 lol I bet people like ruiz in 10 20 years may be higher than holyfield because kids dont understand boxing the way me and you do badguy, The normal fan dont either, Me and my friends are watching the fight and there like evander is not that great with 8 lost and only 38 wins he just got lucky with tyson, The dont understand it.


Badguy I didnt notice any sad atmosphere, I think it was like oh big surprise evander lost not so much a sad feeling.

No way - Is Evander hurting is all-time Staus - I mean should Evander have retired back in 1997 or 1998...of course he should have....(but all in the Biz know this...and so will future writers and historians)....

In fact...Evander Holyfield will look better with time (not worse) - Joe Louis lost a ton of fights past his prime and none of that effected his overall standing - Ali lost twice late (and he wasn't even old really) and that didn't effect his standing -

The idea of how many wins (saying Ruiz has 40) is silly - No one looks at that as a measuring stone -

Evander Holyfield in his prime is most certainly a top-5 HW of all-time. The fact is, he beat Lennox the second fight - That is a simple fact (even Emanuel Stewert says that......Though Manny also says Lennox won the first fight so fair is fair......which he might have a point) -

But the fact is, with Evanders hand speed, chin, combonation punching, recouperative powers, will, heart and desire.......he is simply one of the top-5 HW of all time in his prime.

[wildhawke11]

Meade
You say Joe Louis lost a ton of fights. Wow that's NEWS to me
Perhaps an oversight on your part

Max Schmeling was the only fighter who ever beat Louis as a young man. Joe retired as undefeated HW Champion, but was forced to make a comeback to try to pay off taxes he owed Uncle Sam .Then he was beat by Charles and Marciano.

Fights 71
Won 68
Lost 3
Won 54 by KO

[erickdamac]

LOL yeah he lost like what? 2 fights thats a ton of fights lmao, wow I guess losing one fight is alot and 2 is a ton! Hell if thats the case evander lost 8 times what the hell is that!!!!


Holyfield lost alot of fights and being a ALL Time great means you are so great that you dont lose. He lost to moore, Bowe twice lennox twice Atleast in my book, I think anything after lennox is not even worth talking about. Top ten HW nothing more.

[thebadguy]

Erick... maybe you are one of those uneducated boxing fans that you speak about? I remember a thread quite awhile ago that was about the best Pound for Pound fighters. People were throwing several names in and so forth... and you threw a fit about some of the names because they "never moved up in wieght"... and therefore couldn't be on the list! Your thinking was that in order for ANY fighter to be on a pound for pound list... they had to have moved around in weight at least once. Where did you get that idea? A pound for pound list is something where you throw weight out the window and base your opinion on skill alone. If you were right, Hopkins could not be on any P4P list because he has always been a MW... but he is #1 right now on most lists. You could put a FW at the #1 spot, knowing damn well he couldn't beat the HW that happens to be #2... but he is a better fighter. Make sense? Its NOT a list of fighters who have done well in different weight classes.

Now... about Holyfield. You would definitely agree that Ali is the #1 HW of all time... correct? Well, Joe Louis has more wins and less losses than Ali... so why shouldn't Louis be #1? See what I mean? You are putting way to much emphasis on total wins and total losses. Even if Holyfield goes on to lose 30 more fights and ends up being 38-38-2... that will not diminish his all time status one bit... most people are smart enough to know this, but you dont seem to be grasping the concept or idea of how fighters are rated. History will judge him by his accomplishments in the ring and his skills during his prime. All of the fighting he is doing now will not matter at all. No matter what happens from here... you cant erase his previous accomplishments and you cant deny his skill during his prime and even into his post-prime.

I am just suggesting that maybe you need to learn a little more about this subject as well as the P4P subject... before you make the ridiculous statement that a record of 38-8-2 does not justify Holyfield (or any other great fighter for that matter) being a top 5 HW of all time.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by wildhawke11

Meade
You say Joe Louis lost a ton of fights. Wow that's NEWS to me
Perhaps an oversight on your part

Max Schmeling was the only fighter who ever beat Louis as a young man. Joe retired as undefeated HW Champion, but was forced to make a comeback to try to pay off taxes he owed Uncle Sam .Then he was beat by Charles and Marciano.

Fights 71
Won 68
Lost 3
Won 54 by KO

Wildhawke11 - Thanks for correcting my mistake (with regard to Joe Louis)....I was thinking of Jack Johnson's record for some reason. Seeing how he is always ranked in the top 10 yet he has like 13 or 14 losses -

But my point is Ali lost 5 times by the time he was only 34 years old (Evander is 42 years old and so he has lost 3 more times....way past his prime...BIG DEAL) -

J. Dempsey had 8 losses and like 8 draws......at a younger age than 42.....

Another thing that shows Ericdamac isn't looking at this correctly is his notion that "how many wins" somehow makes a statement.....It certainly does not!! -

Lots of Tyson's wins, lots of Lennox's wins, lots of Holmes wins, lots of Ruiz wins, lots of Foremans wins.....came Vs NOBODY's -

Evander Holyfield was fighting for the Title in only his 11th pro fight....Vs one of the best Cruiser-weights of all time - Dwight Qawi!!! - He then went on to fight top-quaitly rated fighters after that (for the most part).....because he was defending his titles......(from his 11th pro fight on)....

Having to fight so many better fighters takes a toll - Holyfield certainly has many more ring wars with top fighters than does Lennox, Tyson, Ruiz, Tua, Moorer, Foreman, etc, etc....

Evander is the common-denominator of all those fighters...he is the only one to have fought any of them...(outside of Lennox fighting a washed up Tyson)......I mean Lennox didn't even fight Mercer until Mercer was past his prime.....

I mean look at it - Bowe, Tyson, Older Foreman, Lennox, Moorer, Ruiz, etc....Evander is the only one to have fought these guys in their primes (and with Foreman...at least in the prime of his comeback).....Yet Evander didn't even start out a HW.....he was a cruiser weight....yet moved up and managed to sign on the dotted line to fight all these guys.....YET NONE OF THESE GUYS have fought eachother....(outside of Lennox ...once Tyson was washed up finally had the stones to take him on)....

And the fact is Holyfield beat Lennox in the second fight.....It was a complete make-up decision for the first fight and everyone in the biz knows that...

Evander Holyfield is certainly an all-time top 5 HW....(Emanual Stewert says that.....Duva's say that.....Eddie Futch has said that......that is enough for me)...

[kenyan_cheena]

Yet Evander didn't even start out a HW.....he was a cruiser weight....yet moved up and managed to sign on the dotted line to fight all these guys.....

That's another thing that makes him so great. He had conquered the Cruiserweight division even before becoming a Heavyweight.

When I think of Holy kicking Tyson's ass, I get a lump in my throat. I think that was the first fight where his trunks has the word WARRIOR stenciled on them.

I have two fights on video at home that I will never lose. They are Buster Douglas beating Tyson and Holy beating Tyson. This doesn't mean that I don't like Tyson. I was rooting for him to kill Lewis. But those two fights are just incredible.

[erickdamac]

Badguy Let me point out the diffrense between, Ali, Luis, and Evander.
Ali beat all of the top fighters most who are in the top 15 All time Hw greats, He beat them and claimed his throne, Evander never done that He lost 2 of the three fights with bowe, And Imo Doing the 1990-1995 Era One was Ali and one have to be fraizer well It looks like Evander IS Joe. So we cant say he ruled that Era Lets move over to the 1996-1999 Era which happens to be his best runs he revenge his lost to moore, beats Tyson twice but loses to lennox twice (imo) which Now makes Lennox the best, So out of his three eras He lost the big fights in all but one which was the tyson Era, In his first Era he lost to bowe second he beat tyson, and in the third one he loses to Lewis.


In Ali case He dominated a Era which most boxing expert calls the greatest Hw boxing era all time And he never been bested, Unlike Evander he never been bested in his prime He lost to Joe but won the last two.

Evander is a Top ten All time great who showed a heart of a lion but his record (not the 8 loses but to whom he lost to and when it was) shows he is no top 5 HW.

Meade Jack Johnson is known for being the Great white hope era he beated the best white fighters that Era has and he was BLACK! he is great for doing that!

The fact is you cant put Holyfield Ahead ALI, Foreman, Rocky marciano, Joe Luis, Jack Johnson, lennox Lewis and Jack dempsey. And some will make a arguement of putting Bowe, and Tyson ahead of him too, just on another board they had him at 10 with bowe and tyson ahead of him and no one disagreed.

Meade maybe you didnt understand what I was saying, I said People the normal BOXING FAN! Goes by wins I see it all the time I didnt say I go by that myself.

And this pound for pound thing was I think before hopkins fought joppy and you guys was trying to put him ahead of Mayweather and I said wait The guy beat one class A opponet who was moving up in weight and he never left the division How can you put him ahead of Mayweather I wasnt saying thats how the Pound for pound system works.


AND LOL tyson was not in his prime 1 year removed from jail isn't primed meade lmao.

If I can recall roy jones Jr. fought a prime ruiz, so did david tua.

[thebadguy]

WTF?

[almo]

Originally Posted by erickdamac

Badguy Let me point out the diffrense between, Ali, Luis, and Evander.
Ali beat all of the top fighters most who are in the top 15 All time Hw greats, He beat them and claimed his throne, Evander never done that He lost 2 of the three fights with bowe, And Imo Doing the 1990-1995 Era One was Ali and one have to be fraizer well It looks like Evander IS Joe. So we cant say he ruled that Era Lets move over to the 1996-1999 Era which happens to be his best runs he revenge his lost to moore, beats Tyson twice but loses to lennox twice (imo) which Now makes Lennox the best, So out of his three eras He lost the big fights in all but one which was the tyson Era, In his first Era he lost to bowe second he beat tyson, and in the third one he loses to Lewis.

This first paragraph is not understandable. Can someone please translate?
After its decoded, I could or could not agree with the logic. Who knows?

Eric...you have to have to complete sentences and negate all your run on sentences. I want to understand your point....but how could your opinion be articulate if you represent yourself as EXTREMELY inarticulate. I feel bad saying this...but half the time I skip over what you type because I know that 75% of the time I am not going to understand your point or your sentences!