So what next for the Heavyweight division?

[kenyan_cheena]

We've just had this big Heavyweight card, but nothing really changed as a result of it.

We've still got the Klitschko/Williams fight coming up, and Rahman is probably going to fight Ruiz or Byrd next.

What would everyone like to see happen in 2005? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Byrd/Mcline rematch, but what I would really like is for the title to be unified within the next 13 months.

I don't think that there is much chance that Tyson will get a title shot in '05, or if he even wants one that soon.

[Bam Bam]

I would like to see Byrd retire and never come back.

[Cap]

Originally Posted by kenyan_cheena

We've just had this big Heavyweight card, but nothing really changed as a result of it.

We've still got the Klitschko/Williams fight coming up, and Rahman is probably going to fight Ruiz or Byrd next.

What would everyone like to see happen in 2005? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Byrd/Mcline rematch, but what I would really like is for the title to be unified within the next 13 months.

I don't think that there is much chance that Tyson will get a title shot in '05, or if he even wants one that soon.

Nothing against you, ol' bean, but I consider Vitali Klitschko the reigning heavyweight champion. The others are paper champions.

Cap

[kenyan_cheena]

Originally Posted by Cap

Nothing against you, ol' bean, but I consider Vitali Klitschko the reigning heavyweight champion. The others are paper champions.

Cap

I agree with you, but it would be nice to see him destroy the other two guys.
Of course, I would prefer that they have just one champion per division, but we all know that's not going to happen, either.

[IceTea]

I wish Ruiz would take one on the chin, go down, and not get back up. I tired of watching him mug the other fighter.

Byrd doesn't have long left. He is slowing down. In about another year, he will be pretty ordinary if he isn't there already.

Golata is done. He can't put punches together anylonger and doesn't jab.

Vitli is the best out there as of now. Williams is big and has a good right hand, but he has lost to Sam and Francis. Unless he is peaking late, Vittli should get by him. If motivated, Rahman can give anyone problems because of his jab and powerful righthand, but he has issues with guys that can punch.....inspect his losses.

MJ

[LeeSkye]

It is a sad state of affairs in the heavyweight boxing scene when the two biggest names are still Tyson & Holyfield as far as drawing impact is concerned.

Klitschko is the reigning champ as far as I am concerned since he was putting a beating on the linear champ in Lennox Lewis before the fight was stopped. Whether he would have won over the full bout is a matter of speculation but I'll take what I saw and say he is the linear champ. But I don't think he has captured the imagination of the public at large the way Ali, Tyson or even Holyfield did. That is sad for boxing since the HW scene usually attracts the most attention of the general public.

Don't expect Don King to allow the title to be unified, reunified or clarified as the separation makes them/him a lot more money.

I'd like to see Tyson fight fully healthy and fight one of the big boys and either show he still has something or allow us to move on to.....?

And there's the rub.....who?

Holyfield should meet Truth before he meets with Pugilistic Dementia. I love what the guy has done over the years but I don't need to see another great fighter hammered over and over because he loves the sport to much. Please, Evander, go find a young Heavyweight, train him and get your thrills that way.

Joe Mesi was the only other guy who was starting to gain notice and build some excitement. Did he have the real skills at the end of the day? We may never know but he did start to build a buzz. I hope he can come back if only for the interest he creates.

Dominick Guinn has already lost to Monte Barrett and although he beat Phil Jackson in one round I'd like to see him step his game up and prove he belongs in the top echelon. If you're good, fight everybody in 2005 and challenge Klitschko.

Audley Harrison -STEP UP! And I don't mean Tomasz Bonin! Maybe I'm a little harsh on him since he doesn't have 20 fights yet but Frazier had fought Bonevena by fight 12 then followed up with Eddie Machen, Doug Jones, George Chuvalo and had part of the title by fight 21. Ali beat Liston in his 20th fight. It took Tyson 28 fights but 13 of those fights were in the same year he won the crown! You're a fighter pal....fight!

I'd like to see John Ruiz go back to his true profession -Sumo wrestling.
[I will give the guy credit for doing what he does with little real skill but he kills the excitement that should be there in a big event.]

Same with Chris Byrd. An accomplished fighter but stop bitch slapping your opponent -close the glove! He could beat Klitschko but that would kill the sport even more than clutching and grabbing killed the thrill of hockey. No matter what anyone says, sport has to deliver entertainment cause the fan foots the bill. And I don't care if the casual fan just doesn't understand the skills involved etc etc, there still needs to be entertaiment. I'd like to see Byrd step up his game as well and go for a few KO's and thrills in the ring. Help bring back the prominence of the HW champ in the eyes of the world.

I'd like to see Toney, Roy Jones and Ruiz all fight Klitschko in 2005.

[erickdamac]

I think something did change, And thats Hasim Rahman With his recent win we have to put him ahead of Toney, Byrd looked great in winning giving up almost 60 pounds and still to hurt the big man! Amazing, Ruiz looked like Himself, and Andrew Looks like a guy who can give any opponet fits on any givin night.

[sabotai]

Well, Toney beat Rydell and the WBC labeled that as a HW Title Eliminator...so I guess that means Vitali has to (if the WBC enforces it, anyway) fight Toney after he beats (and if he doesnt'...ugh) Danny Williams. I'd pay to see that fight. It'd be great for boxing if Toney can win the title and might get a LOT of attention if that gets Jones Jr. "fired up". We could have a James Toney vs. Roy Jones Jr heavyweight title fight. Or maybe Toney vs. Tarver heavyweight title fight.

Originally Posted by erickdamac

I think something did change, And thats Hasim Rahman With his recent win we have to put him ahead of Toney, Byrd looked great in winning giving up almost 60 pounds and still to hurt the big man! Amazing, Ruiz looked like Himself, and Andrew Looks like a guy who can give any opponet fits on any givin night.

If Rahman can stay in good shape, he should fight Byrd or Vitali or maybe even Ruiz again. But if Rahman lets himself get back up to 260 or 270, he doesn't deserve a title shot.

[LeeSkye]

We could have a James Toney vs. Roy Jones Jr heavyweight title fight. Or maybe Toney vs. Tarver heavyweight title fight.

FUnny how things turn out. Not long ago we had some arguments and statements as to how today's fighters are so big and strong and they would be better than anyone in the past......

Now all the "little" fighters are beating the "Big" fighters or "true" heavyweights......just goes to show that "Size is not everything" [yes I've had this argument with my wife!] and that talent and learning the skills goes a long way in the sport of boxing.

And I realize that Klitschko is "big" but I can see him possibly getting beat by a "little" guy like Chris Byrd with his great defense and boxing skills.

"Course, big or small, 'll take 'em all...if they can create a little excitement!

[Mr Big]

If size doesn't matter in the heavyweight division today, then why don't we see great middleweight champions like Bernard Hopkins stepping up and defeating Vitali Klitschko for the heavyweight title the way Bob Fitzsimmons did against James J. Corbett in 1897?

It's simple mathematics. The heavyweights were much smaller then. Fitzsimmons was only giving up 1.5 inches and 17 lbs. to Corbett when he won the title. Hopkins would be giving up 6.5 inches and 85 lbs. to Klitschko. A MUCH more difficult task, despite his superior boxing skills. Antonio Tarver, at 6'3" 175 lbs. would also be defeated by the Russian. Again, DESPITE his superior talent.

When a 5'10" 180 lb. "heavyweight" steps into the ring in the 21st century and knocks out Vitali Klitschko, I will believe that the "big" men of yesteryear could dominate today's landscape. Until then, I'm not convinced.

[djday45]

But there has always been "huge" heavyweights even going back to the early 20th century.
And some of the biggest heavyweights were eventually defeated by much "smaller" men.

The great classic example of this is Dempsey-Willard.

The heavyweight division is very strange in this regard sometimes, there are really no hard and fast rules. The old adage a good big un will always beat a good little un does usually apply, the only trouble is most of the really big uns amoung the heavies are not very good!

rgds
Dean

[LeeSkye]

If size doesn't matter

The statement made was "Size is not everything". Two completely different thoughts.

I was referring to the comments and feelings that today's HWs would defeat ANYONE in the past just because they were big. No one ever said a FW would beat a HW.

Here is a quote from boxing expert Bert Sugar

These guys have gotten huge. I don't think Lennox Lewis is nearly as good as Rocky Marciano, but there's no doubt in my mind that given a 50-pound weight advantage he could simply smother Rocky if they fought. He wouldn't hurt him, but he'd smother him.

see http://archive.salon.com/news/sports.../05/09/boxing/

[Cap]

Originally Posted by Mr Big

If size doesn't matter in the heavyweight division today, then why don't we see great middleweight champions like Bernard Hopkins stepping up and defeating Vitali Klitschko for the heavyweight title the way Bob Fitzsimmons did against James J. Corbett in 1897?

It's simple mathematics. The heavyweights were much smaller then. Fitzsimmons was only giving up 1.5 inches and 17 lbs. to Corbett when he won the title. Hopkins would be giving up 6.5 inches and 85 lbs. to Klitschko. A MUCH more difficult task, despite his superior boxing skills. Antonio Tarver, at 6'3" 175 lbs. would also be defeated by the Russian. Again, DESPITE his superior talent.

When a 5'10" 180 lb. "heavyweight" steps into the ring in the 21st century and knocks out Vitali Klitschko, I will believe that the "big" men of yesteryear could dominate today's landscape. Until then, I'm not convinced.

Fitz was a large middleweight. Imagine a fast 6' 1" middleweight putting on 40 hard pounds or so and taking superior boxing skills into the ring. I think he could outbox many of the big boys. But remember, Fitz and Dempsey and Marciano beat men larger than themselves because they were exceptional hitters. Fireman Jim Flynn lay a beating on Carl Morris over ten rounds, but didn't have the wallop to put him down. Flynn was 5' 9" maybe a shade taller. Morris stood 6' 4" and outweighed Flynn by roughly 40 pounds. If a cruiserweight comes along who can punch like Dempsey or Tyson, a truly exceptional fighter, he could become champion. Most truly exceptional athletes have no interest in getting belted in the beezer, and so avoid the sport.

Cap

[kenyan_cheena]

15 months later, and the division is still a mess...

[Cap]

Putting it mildly. If the card on FNF recently is an example of the average boxing card in North America, boxing is in a near-coma state. There's a programme on next month at the Hershey Centre featuring mostly local boys. If I was single and 18 again I'd likely go. Not as tolerant of beer-sodden boneheads who know nothing about boxing as I once was. I can catch a card just as good or better on TV from the Casino Montreal next month.

Sad thing is that farce on FNF was the first heavyweight "fight" I've seen in almost a year.

Cap

P.S. Kirk Johnson is reportedly finally shaking off the domestic shackles and fighting Javier Mora March 3rd.