Sonny Liston

[kenyan_cheena]

Those of you who have been following my Heavyweight Boxing Federation thread in Inside the Ropes will know that I've just recently arrived at the HBF debut of Sonny Liston.

Now, I have a bit of knowledge about Liston, but one thing I'm not sure about is his personality. Was he just a completely cold, unemotional person? Did he ever show a sense of humour? What was he like in post fight interviews? Like many others, I'm fascinated by him, and I really want to make him one of the main stars of my universe.

[LeeSkye]

I remember seeing a number of interviews when Sonny Liston was champ and he always struck me as "somber". I don't believe Sonny was a cold, emotionless person in his personal life although he did look that way in the ring. Or maybe "menacing" is the more appropriate term. I remember Sonny smiling or laughing a few times in interviews but not very often. Sonny also struck me as a bit shy although you have to realize that in that era not everyone was very comfortable with television. That was probably why someone like Cassius Clay [later Ali] stood out so much. I remember one tv show in particular where Sonny was interviewed by a panel and he was polite but as I said somber as he answered questions. Near the end of the show they went to commmercial and said Sonny Liston would show the routine he developed and used for skipping rope in the gym. When they came back on air Sonny was dressed in his boxing trunks and he began to skip rope to the music of "Sweet Georgia Brown". Sonny skipped to the beat of the music and at one point switched the rope to his left hand [his feet still dancing] and continued to strike it on the floor to the beat of the music, then switched it to his right hand and did the same, then took it back in both hands and was skipping with it again. He never lost a step as he moved the rope back and forth. The big guy looked so graceful and I was amazed at the whole thing.

[kenyan_cheena]

Thanks for the info, LeeSkye. That should help me with how I will portray Sonny in my universe. Much appreciated. I am hoping that in MY universe, he becomes more of a legendary fighter than he did in real life. It's likely that he'll get a title shot much earlier in his career, which will give him a good chance of being at the top while in his prime.

I think if it hadn't been for Clay/Ali, no one would have beaten Liston until perhaps Frazier in the late 60's. He would have easily defeated all those boxers who lost to Ali up to Ali's 1967 ban.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

My memories of him were similar to LeeSkyes; it's hard to say what he was like in private, unless you read his story in Sports Illustrated. He DID do time, and he did have a serious demeanor, but perhaps he lightened up if he felt comfortable with you. I have the feeling you would try REALLY hard to please him, when he was around. I saw him skipping rope on the Ed Sullivan show, which may be where Lee saw it.
I remember around 1969(I was a big Liston fan), he fought Leotis Martin, and he decked Martin with a left hook, in the second,third or fourth round. I thought it was all over for Leotis(Leotis had a SERIOUS speech impediment, for those striving for ultimate reality, in their boxing universes), but Leotis somehow got off the hook, and later, he flattened the 40 some year old Liston. The thing I remember most about this knockout was Howard Cosell yelling, "SONNY LISTON IS NOT REAL!", several times over, similar to his "Down Goes Frazier!", of later years. I was very dissapointed at that moment, and Howard showed himself to be a big chump, right then. I liked Howard okay, but I couldn't stand him that day(one Saturday afternoon).

[maxx]

When I think back to Liston, I always recall his scowl and the fear he invoked in his opponents. If you remember Tyson during his prime, the intimidation factor was very similar. This was a guy who other fighters flat out feared, and he definitely played up that persona (although, no question, much of his thug nature was not an act). Like the young Tyson who would come later, Liston won a number of his fights before the bout even started.

I read an interview with Old Foreman talking about how he patterned his Young Foreman surliness with the press and brutality in the ring on Liston. He wanted to inspire the same kind of fear and intimidation as Liston, and did a pretty good job of it.

[Jim_Kidd]

Sonny Liston could have been one of the best ever. I've read a lot about him over the years. Here's a few facts that stick out at this particular moment. Sonny didn't know how to read. It was a fact that he tried to hide throughout his life. I once read that he would listen to what others were ordering when in restaurants.

Also, after he won the title, he was anxious to represent the image of Heavyweight Champion of the world with class and dignity. However, after the plane touched down in Philly... no one was there to greet him and to celebrate his victory over Floyd Patterson.

According to the account I read, he simply hung his head... and walked off. For Liston, he seemed to be looking to his arrival in Philly as a moment of redemption. A moment in which his shadowed past would be put behind him. I guess you could say he saw it as a new beginning.

Had he been around in this day and age, that's probably what would have happened. It wasn't to be, however.

It seems that nothing cut deeper to the bone than that moment. From that point on... he was as bitter as ever... viewing the championship for its monetary value alone... and nothing else.

His was a sad story.

Hopefully, he'll find some redemption in your universe!


Jim

[Cap]

Lot of people don't know Sonny liked kids and they seemed to like him. I think he felt comfortable around them because they didn't demand much from him.

Cap

[Ian Lord]

Further to what Cap says about Sonny liking kids, I heard this as well. Sonny once said that children and old people were the only ones who ever seen any good in him.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

Ian Lord, I met Ritchie Blackmore at the Griswold Inn, in Essex, Connecticut, in 1987. My wife, and mother and father-in-law were eating there, and Ritchie's group and mine were the only two groups there. You WERE the keyboard player with Deep Purple, were you not? Or is that Jon? Ian Drury?
Back to Sonny Liston, the tune that was playing, while he was jumping rope on the Ed Sullivan show was "Night Train". Sonny in a different environment could conceivably have won the title around 1956, and kept it until 1964. I can relate to him being very different away from the spotlight. In real life, ANY person would not take the press too seriously, if set in that situation; it's all hype, and prodding for controversial responses. If he had a modest amount of schooling, he may well have been antagonized by the exposure. "Hype" rules in the press, but not in real life. How often do you see popular TV figures booed like crazy in personal appearances at Super Bowls, for instance? Real people know the performer only is up there because of her cleavage. For Entertainment Tonight, this is Steamboat Brand reporting..

[Antonin]

Nick Tosches' book "The Devil in Sonny Liston" is a good source of info on some of the things that made Sonny Liston tick.

[Ian Lord]

Ian Lord, I met Ritchie Blackmore at the Griswold Inn, in Essex, Connecticut, in 1987. My wife, and mother and father-in-law were eating there, and Ritchie's group and mine were the only two groups there. You WERE the keyboard player with Deep Purple, were you not? Or is that Jon? Ian Drury?

Definately not me, that was Jon. My dads name's John, he was never in Deep Purple though, [although he'd probably like people to think he was].

All the best,
Ian.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

So, you're not even Ian Drury? You're not one of his "Blockheads"? This means I just made a reference to Ritchie Blackmore on a boxing website for no reason! If ANYTHING'S inexcusable, that is!

[mrchallenge]

I think Liston was a nice guy who unfortunately got caught up in organized crime and such. He was very intelligent and articulate and liked children and old people. Unfortunately he was into drugs and cheated on his wife a few times, but overall, he' isn't the monster that people say he is.