10 Worst Heavyweight Champions of all time, guess who heads the list?

[bear]

I may be in a minority, but I'd exclude Marvin Hart from the list. I've read some vehement letters sent to The Ring in the 20's or 30's defending Hart's abilities as a fighter. The guy was already being discounted a generation after he'd retired, and the passing of another 70 years hasn't helped his cause too much. I recall having read that he, like Harry Greb, was blind in one eye and that this handicap limited him to being a slugging infighter. He has a victory over Jack Johnson on his resume,and whatever the circumstances of the fight might be, a victory over a man I place in the top four of all-time among heavies should exclude him from a listing of bad heavies. I'd switch Seldon to his slot in a heartbeat and put Tucker in Ruiz's spot. This is not a defense of John Ruiz and his "Ernie Terrell Wanna-Be" boxing style. Jab and grabbers bore me to tears, but I don't think my dislike for a style is adequate grounds to include someone in a top ten list of bad champions. It is more of an indictment of Ruiz's opponents who aren't skilled or savy enough to counter the style.

Bear

Originally Posted by IceTea

As far as title claimants go Bruce Seldon is very conspicuous in his absence from this, or any other listing of poor heavyweight champs. I'd also probably place Tony Tucker on one too.

Good call! Emanuel Stewart once said that Bruce Seldon was physically the best heavy he ever coached. He was a great sprinter, weightlifter and the like. He could not handle the bright lights. I saw Oliver McCall eat him alive about 5 years before Seldon became a brief paper champion.

I thought Tucker had nice ability but was past his prime by the time he was champ.

Ruiz, though I like him, belongs on the list. I think he would have had serious issues with most of the heavies from the 80's because they all had decent movement. Ruiz is too heavy on his front leg and fighters like Tubbs, Page, Carl Williams, Holmes, Spinks, Dokes, and Berbick would have employed similar styles as Jones and Toney did to box to fairly one-sided wins. Ruiz also takes alot of righthands from the outside, Witherspoon would have knocked his head off with his looping right.

MJ

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by 60'sfan

While I agree with many of the fighters on the list, I don't consider Tubbs, Thomas, Bruno and Ruiz to be champions. At the time Tubbs and Thomas were supposedly champs, the real champion was Larry Holmes. When Bruno supposedly won his title, the real champ was either Lewis, Holyfield or Bowe. Ruiz has supposedly been champ when the real champ was either Lewis or Vitali.
Here's my list, restricted to the real champs.

1- Leon Spinks. Absolutely the worst overall heavyweight champ.
2- Jack Sharkey. Was KO'd by Primo Carnera. Swore to his death that the KO was legitimate.
3- Primo Carnera. Had some decent skills but a china chin.
4- Jess Willard. Had one great fight against Johnson, but was slow and plodding.
5- Jim Braddock. Was really a light heavy. Had his one moment in the sun by beating Baer.
6 - Max Baer. His greatest victory was over Max Schmeling, but was a crude, limited fighter.
7 - Marvin Hart. He did beat a prime Jack Johnson, but overall was not very successful.
8- Buster Douglas. The latter day Marvin Hart. Beat a prime Tyson, but that's it.
9 - Ingemar Johansson. Actually beat some good fighters, but had a poor chin and questionable stamina.
10 - Floyd Patterson. I loved to watch Floyd in the 60's as he was very good in many areas. But his chin really was bad so he was always at risk of being KO'd.

Here is my list:
1- Seldon
2- John Tate * Had ability till Weaver hit him.
3- Burns
4- Williard
5- Sharkey
6- Carnera
7- Spinks
8- Bruno
9- Tubbs
10- James Smith

Honoralbe mention: M. Moorer, James Douglas

[Jim_Kidd]

I reading through the lists thinking - yeah, that's a good order. And then to the next thinking - Oh, I forgot about him. Thanks to the alphabet titles, we have a whole lot of bad heavyweight champions we can debate about.

How depressing! Before you know it, picking the worst Heavyweight Champions of all-time will be as challenging and controversial as picking the best - if not more so!


Jim

[meade95]

Originally Posted by bear

I'd switch Seldon to his slot in a heartbeat and put Tucker in Ruiz's spot.

I'd agree - Seldon deserves to be on this list long before Ruiz.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by Jim_Kidd

How depressing! Before you know it, picking the worst Heavyweight Champions of all-time will be as challenging and controversial as picking the best - if not more so!


Jim

Funny!

[meade95]

Originally Posted by Mr Big

I still think that Vitali would have beaten Lyle. Too big. Too strong.

Also, I have the Klitschko-Lewis fight on tape, and have watched it at least a couple of dozen times. Vitali was dominant, as reflected in all three judges having him ahead 4 rounds to 2 at the time of the stoppage.

The look of relief on Lewis's face tells the story. He was taking a beating, and didn't have any more in the tank than Klitschko. As for the cut that stopped the bout, it was a puncture wound, caused by a piece of loose tape on Lennox's glove; not a punch. It's ridiculous that they stopped the bout with Vitali ahead. I've seen Arturo Gatti bleeding much worse and the doctors allow the fight to continue because he was winning.

I'd agree that Vitali was probably winning the fight Vs Lewis.....But that wasn't Lewis in his prime by any means (and I'm not a big Lewis fan).

But I don't have any doubt that Lewis was a better fighter / boxer than Vitali. Lewis was a hell of a boxer for a man his size in his prime. And on his best night Vs Vitali on his best night Lewis wins 9 out of 10 times.

[Lee]

From worst on...

1-Primo Carnera: The man had no skill at all and was basically Puppet with a lot of Heart. The way he was manipulated and used as almost a Circus freak makes you compelled to feel bad for him.

2-Jess Willard: Even if Johnson's claims were not true, he still beat a Man who was just plain tired of running, was aging and not in shape. I don't think Jack had the Heart anymore by this point.

3-Leon Spinks: Crude and limited, the best thing going for him when he beat Ali was he really didn't know he did not belong in the Ring fighting for the Title. He is almost like a modern day Carnera, in the way he was manipulated by people.

4-John Ruiz: I try to give him credit for winning but my God, has there ever been a more boring Champion, that led such a charmed existance in getting opponents down to his level in the Ring?

5-Buster Douglas: Caught lightning in a Bottle and was able to ride the inspiration of his mothers death to an unbelievable performance. Tyson was already showing signs of being unstable at this point, but still should have handled Douglas with relative ease.

6-Marvin Hart: His win over Jack Johnson was questionable and again more an example of an uninterested Johnson. Was extremely raw and his lack of skill was badly exploited by Burns, an overachiever in his own right.

7-Ingemar Johansson: Terrific right hand, and nothing else, everything fell into place for him against Floyd, who was much more skilled, but did not have the Chin to take a solid punch from any hard hitting Heavy how could land on him.

8-James Braddock: Yes it is a great story and James had tremendous heart that allowed him to take advantage of Baer. As was mentioned earlier he was an average heavy, in an era of average Heavies dominated by Louis. The state of the division here was very similar to the era Holmes ruled.

9-Hassim Rahman: Again a hard puncher who landed his best punch at the right time. The kind of Fighter who will always be dangerous if you let your concentration lapse, but will always be bettered by a talented, focused opponent.

10-Jack Sharkey: Jack was an enigma, he could look like a World beater one night and a total Bum the next. Despite his denials, the Carnera fight will always have a cloud over it as did many of his efforts. The only man to win the Title on a foul. Just plain too erratic.

Max Baer was mentioned by 60's fan and I think a better title for him might be most dissappointing Heavyweight Champion. Max was built like Adonis and could hit as hard as anyone around, also had more skill than you give him credit for. His problem was, Max just liked the fame more than the work required to achieve it, and as he found he could use his recognition as a top fighter to his advantage in hollywood and broadway social circles, he basically lost interest in the fight game. Had he even taken the Braddock fight semi-seriously he would have mugged the Cinderalla man. As it was he was content to Clown and mug, waiting to land that one good shot that never came. Could have been a decent Champ with more commitment.

You can also make great cases for Smith, Bruno, Seldon, Thomas and others from the Alphabet era. But, why not just lump them as a big mass of mediocrity created by people only looking to make a buck off of both them and the Boxing public.....I used to be able to recite the top ten from each division in the 70's. I am ashamed to say now, as much as I love Boxing, that when looking at those polls for the true champion in each division I found I was constantly asking myself "who the f*ck is that guy?" Thanks Alphabet boys!

[Mr Big]

Originally Posted by meade95

I'd agree that Vitali was probably winning the fight Vs Lewis.....But that wasn't Lewis in his prime by any means (and I'm not a big Lewis fan).

But I don't have any doubt that Lewis was a better fighter / boxer than Vitali. Lewis was a hell of a boxer for a man his size in his prime. And on his best night Vs Vitali on his best night Lewis wins 9 out of 10 times.

I will agree with that. A prime Lewis TKOs the current Vitali in about 7 rounds. If Lennox came back and fought Klitschko now, I would reverse the prediction.

[jrftbl56]

I think Lennox Lewis is one of the most overrated heavyweight champions of all time i know im gonna take some on this one from the british fans but i really think his reign as champion was filled with wins over guys who had passed there prime and fighters who were not much more then ordinary at best.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by jrftbl56

I think Lennox Lewis is one of the most overrated heavyweight champions of all time i know im gonna take some on this one from the british fans but i really think his reign as champion was filled with wins over guys who had passed there prime and fighters who were not much more then ordinary at best.

I think you can make a strong case for this, but that it boils down more to Lewis' motivation than talent. Lennox could be a destroyer when properly motivated, but was another of those fighters that just never appeared to be in love with the sport itself.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by jrftbl56

I think Lennox Lewis is one of the most overrated heavyweight champions of all time i know im gonna take some on this one from the british fans but i really think his reign as champion was filled with wins over guys who had passed there prime and fighters who were not much more then ordinary at best.

I can agree with you here (at times) - Lewis was a hell of a fighter for a man his size (he could box very well.....and bang...when he wanted) - But I agree when some try and rank him above Holyfield, Tyson's or Holmes (for example) I just don't see that at all - All three of those men in their primes would have Lewis for lunch (more often than not).

I see Lennox Lewis as top 15 through 25 HW - (somewhere in that range) - Which is still damn impressive.

[Cap]

Re: that aforementioned article. Braddock beat a great heavyweight in Tommy Farr after he lost to Louis. He also beat Art Lasky who was a top ten heavy and that was just prior to the Baer fight. Braddock probably really was a light heavyweight, but hey! more power to him for beating the bejasus out of that big oaf Max Baer!

Cap