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TBCB Inside the Ropes Your game and fantasy fights

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Old 12-19-2008, 09:50 AM   #101 (permalink)
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When I saw the title of the thread, I thought of the song, but didn't remember all of the words. Keep posting, and find another song (maybe Grandma got run over by a reindeer)!
There's a song I do like, but it's hard to imagine a universe it would fit in with naturally...

Now, if Williams loses to Satterfield again, that would really change history in a fairly big way. Probably it's too late in Satterfield's career for that to happen, though. I notice in boxrec, by the way, that when they really fought in 1954, Williams came in as a last-minute substitute (Doc Williams, Satterfield's scheduled opponent, "couldn't be found," and he has no subsequent fights on his record).
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:59 AM   #102 (permalink)
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There's a song I do like, but it's hard to imagine a universe it would fit in with naturally...

Now, if Williams loses to Satterfield again, that would really change history in a fairly big way. Probably it's too late in Satterfield's career for that to happen, though. I notice in boxrec, by the way, that when they really fought in 1954, Williams came in as a last-minute substitute (Doc Williams, Satterfield's scheduled opponent, "couldn't be found," and he has no subsequent fights on his record).
Thanks! My girlfriend downloaded that song for me---it's horrible! Oh my God, had I known that people would think of that song because of the title of this uni, I would have named it differently. All I wanted to do was play off the Clay poem.

Some questions. Now that damn song is in my mind whenever I go to my own uni! How can you get it out? Can you get it out?
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:27 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Bad news Prof.....you're doomed to hear that song for all eternity!!
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:18 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I'm really sorry now I didn't just carry my heavy burden in silence, instead of infecting other people with it.

Have you tried humming "Grandma got run over by a reindeer?" The two songs are pretty much incompatible and I don't think it's possible for them to coexist in the same mind.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:51 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Now there's an idea...how about "They're coming to take me away ha ha..They're coming to take me away ho ho hee hee ha ha to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time....."



Last edited by Infinity; 12-19-2008 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Forgot a ha ha....HAHA!
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:55 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Infinity & Dave

Thanks---but I tried both, but now that horrible song is still in my mind!
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:44 PM   #107 (permalink)
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The Syracuse Sentinal
May 3, 1957

MOORE TAKES OUT DeJOHN IN 7TH

By Tom Stark

Local boxing fans had little to cheer last night at War Memorial Auditorium as the legendary Archie Moore knocked out hometown favorite Mike DeJohn in the seventh round of what could best be termed a no contest. For the capacity crowd the only bright moment was the prefight introduction of the popular welterweight champion, Carmen Basilio who received a standing ovation.

DeJohn's performance was a major disappointment for the Syracuse boxing community. Last month he scored a major upset by knocking out the highly touted Willie Pastrano in three rounds and appeared to be poised to enter the world heavyweight rankings.

Ever the crafty Old Mongoose, Moore used his vast experience to frustrate DeJohn. Fighting out of a crab-like defensive shell, Archie was able to avoid Mike's power and score effective counters. He also demonstrated his proclivity for bending the rules and was admonished several times by referee Jack DiGiacomo for using elbows and hitting south of the border.

Whether it was the result of right crosses or a thumb, DeJohn's left eye began to swell at the close of the second round. As the contest progressed, he found it increasingly difficult to avoid Moore's punches.

In round four, Moore dropped DeJohn with a well-placed combination. After taking a full eight count, Mike was able to weather Archie's assualt but appeared to be on shakey pins.

It was obvious that DeJohn was starting to tire by the fifth. He made several attempts to nail Moore with his right but was off-target. In return, Moore tagged him with sharp countering rights. The next round pretty much followed the same pattern.

Midway through the seventh, Moore unleashed a barrage of punches, and knocked DeJohn through the ropes and partially out of the ring. The stunned DeJohn made an effort to climb back in but couldn't get back to his feet before the referee reached ten.

It can certainly be said that Moore was just too experienced for the local slugger, but some blame should be placed upon Mike's broad shoulders. DeJohn weighed in at 220 lbs. which is about fifteen pound heavier than he was last month when he kayoed Pastrano. The extra pounds caused him to be slow and sluggish, a situation of which Moore took full advantage.

This bout was a golden opportunity for DeJohn to advance his career, and quite honestly, he blew it. Not only did he let down his handlers, he also disappointed his many local fans who packed the War Memorial to cheer him on.

Always in the mood to welcome an audience, Moore held court in the locker room after the match. He praised DeJohn's power and talent. The Old Mongoose has always been gracious and more than generous.

He then used the opportunity to take a shot at the Universal Boxing Organization and its president, Hans Reuter. Moore has been under pressure from Reuter to defend his light heavyweight title, and the UBO has refused to rank Moore in the heavyweight division while he holds the 175 lb. championship.

"Overall, I was pleased with my performance," Moore mused."Although, I've been under the weather all week. I think Hans Reuter gave me the Dutch flu bug. No matter who I beat, the UBO seems to have it out for me. I guess if I beat Floyd Patterson for the title, they'd refuse to recognize me as the heavyweigth champ."

Moore said that within the next week he will be making a major announcement concerning his future in boxing. This of course created a buzz within the boxing world, and the grapevine is flooded with rumors as a result.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:31 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Thanks---but I tried both, but now that horrible song is still in my mind!

Don't feel bad I can't get "They're Coming to Take Me Away" out of my head now....lol
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:51 PM   #109 (permalink)
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THE CYMRU CLARION
The News of Wales in the English Language
May 9, 1957



Bygraves Outpoints Richardson

By Derrick Thomson

(Cardiff) Despite the cheering on of more than thirty thousand supporters, local heavyweight favorite Dick Richardson was unable to overcome former British Commonwealth champion Joe Bygraves who won their match via a unanimous decision last night at Maindy Stadium.

Two of the judges had the match 96-95 while a third scored it 97-96, all in favor of the Jamaican Bygraves. From my vantage point, Richardson might have benefited from a bit of favoritism, but that was still not enough to overcome the clear fact that he was clearly the loser.

As is the case with most of Dick's matches, last night's contest was not a demonstration in the fine art of scientific boxing. For most of the bout, both men stood at close quarters and traded blows to the body and head.

Needless to say there was considerable holding and numerous instances of rules violations. One had to feel a little sorry for referee Dave Sinclair who had to frequently pull the combatants apart and do his best to apply the rules.

Richardson was the aggressor for most of the match but was off with his punches throughout the battle. Dick was not in his best shape and displayed a bit of extra flesh about his midriff. Nevertheless, he did score a number of hard rights and stunned Bygraves several times.

As the score cards indicated at the end of the bout, Bygraves was more effective. Not only did he manage to avoid many of Richardson's bombs but he also wobbled the big Welshman with wicked uppercuts to the head and body.

Given the mauling, brawling nature of the match, both fighters were pretty much marked up at the conclusion. Bygraves sported substantial swelling of his right eye while Richardson suffered a rather nasty gash over his left orb.

Richardson's loss represents a substantial setback at this point in his career. After an impressive win last month over Peter Bates coupled with Brian London's recent loss by way of a third round kayo at the hands of Franco Cavicchi, Richardson could have been an ideal position to challenge the winner of the Henry Cooper-Joe Erskine Commonwealth title match. Unfortunately, the defeat will knock him down a few pegs.

In contrast, the victory breathes new life into Bygraves's career. Two months ago, Bygraves lost his Commonweath crown when he was stopped by Copper in the tenth round. With this win, he could get an opportunity to win back his crown before the year ends.

While they were disappointed by Richardson's loss, Welsh boxing fans still have the Cooper-Erskine bout ahead of them. Erskine defeated Cooper by way of a technical decision when their contest was halted in the ninth round due to the worsening of a cut Cooper recieved earlier from an accidental butt. So Cymru national pride could still receive a big boost if Erskine prevails in his title quest.

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Old 12-23-2008, 10:06 AM   #110 (permalink)
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The British Boxing Bulletin

May 12, 1957


COOPER REGAINS TITLE ON EARLY STOPPAGE
Erskine Suffers Severe Cut

By Reggie Curtiz


(The Olympia) Should Henry Cooper and Joe Erskine ever do battle again, it might be wise to stage the contest at the London Metro Blood Bank. When the two met previously, their match was halted in the ninth round and Erskine was awarded a technical decision due to a severe cut Cooper suffered from an unintentional butt.

As a result, the Commonwealth heavyweight championship was declared vacant, and the two boxers met last night to set matters right. Once again blood flow was a factor in the outcome. This time it was Erskine who suffered a nasty cut which gave Cooper a third round TKO victory and the Commonwealth crown.

The first two rounds was essentially a replay of the first fight between the two. Erskine employed his boxing skills by pestering Cooper with a constant jab. When Henry was able to dodge Erskine's jab, the talented Welshman utilized his footwork to avoid Cooper's punches. By the end of the first round, there appeared to be a slight swelling about Henry's right eye

Similar to the strategy he employed in the previous bout, Cooper seemed content to lay back and counter Erskine's punches. Around the two minute mark of round three, Cooper scored a slashing left hook which opened a terrible gash over Erskine's right eye.

About fifteen seconds later, referee Tommy Street, alarmed by the excessive flow of blood, halted the action and escorted Erskine to the ring apron where the wound was examined by Dr. William Howard. After spending ten seconds inspecting the cut, Howard advised Street to stop the match.

Of course the great irony here is that it's Henry who has the reputation as the bleeder, not Erskine. Street's stoppage was greeted with boos and catcalls by the crowd. While one can certainly understand their frustration with the early ending, I had a chance to view Erskine's cut after the match and am convinced that Street took the proper action.

The result has a substantial impact upon the British heavyweight scene. Only a few months ago, boxing writers across the globe were excited about the big guys from the British Isles. Along with the results of other contests this month, this match has dampened the enthusiasim.

Dick Richardson, who showed considerable promise, recently dropped a decision to former Commonwealth king Joe Bygraves. Rough and rugged Brian London had previously lost a split decision to Erskine and was in a position for a crack at the Brit crown. Earlier this month, he was knocked cold by Italy's Franco Cavicchi in three rounds.

So whom does Cooper fight next? There seems to be little interest in another bloody meeting with Erskine at present. A return match with Bygraves also has little gate appeal.

Chances are that Cooper could be climbing into the ring to challenge Euro champ Ingemar Johansson before the end of the year. Ingo has exhausted the heavyweight ranks on the Continent and would like to have at least one more match before he begins his quest for the world title next year. At the beginning of the year, there was an effort to set up a Cooper-Johansson title match but talks fell apart. This time the fight could become a reality.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:16 AM   #111 (permalink)
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NEW YORK DAILY RECORD
May 15, 1957


D'AMATO CHARGES BOXING CZAR WITH "CONSPIRACY"

By Jack Talbot

Cus D'Amato, the outspoken manager of heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson, today charged Universal Boxing Organization chief Hans Reuter with conspiring to undermine his fighter's status as titleholder. D'Amato's charges were made at an impromptu press conference in New York's Plaza Hotel.

D'Amato cited a recent meeting between Reuter and former champion Rocky Marciano last month as the basis of his charges. Marciano is making a comeback after a two year retirement.

Marciano was recently added to the June 15th boxing card which features Patterson's title defense against top ranked Harold (Hal) Carter in Yankee Stadium. Marciano will fight fifth-ranked Tommy "Hurricane" Jackson, who lost to Pattterson in a title bid earlier this year. The event is being promoted by Binkie Bravetta who heads Starlight Entertainment.

"The fix is in," D'Amato declared. "Marciano had a secret meeting with Reuter last month, and two days later Bravetta adds Marciano to the card.
Reuter and Marciano refuse to disclose what they talked about."

D'Amato claims that this is an effort on Reuter's part to force Patterson to give Marciano a title shot. Under UBO rules if Patterson gets past Carter, he must defend the title against one of the top five boxers in the division. D'Amato charged that Reuter promised Marciano a fifth place ranking if he defeats Jackson next month.

According to D'Amato, Marciano's addition to the card detracts from Patterson's status as champion and is an effort on Reuter's part to stir up public pressure for a Patterson-Marciano title match later this year.

"Marciano's been inactive for two years," D'Amato continued. "Reuter wants to force our hand to give him a title match if he wins one fight. We've followed the UBO rules. Both Jackson and Carter had number one rankings when we signed to fight them. Floyd's only obligated to meet one top contender in a year. We've already satisfied that requirement.

"When we signed with Bravetta and Starlight Entertainment there was a clause that ensured that Floyd would headline the card. The heavyweight champion has always been given the spotlight when he defends his crown. If I had known that Marciano was going to be added after the fact, I would have never signed with Starlight."

He went on to state that Patterson's attorney is looking into the matter to see if the promotional contract has been violated. D'Amato indicated that if Marciano is not removed from the fight card, Patterson might withdraw from the event.

"Right now, we are reviewing out legal options," he said, "but it as it stands now, either the Marciano-Jackson match is scratched or Floyd doesn't fight on June 15th."

D'Amato concluded by charging that Reuter had orchestrated the entire affair and pointed to the fact that Marciano announced his return to the ring shortly after his meeting with Reuter.

Reuter and D'Amato have clashed previously on a variety of issues since the UBO became a sanctioning body earlier this year. Most recently, the UBO rejected D'Amato's petition to ban Charles "Sonny" Liston from future title fights. Liston, a top heavyweight, is currently serving a five year prison term.

Reuter declined immediate comment but indicated that the UBO will issure a formal response to D'Amato's charges within the next few days.




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Old 12-29-2008, 11:36 AM   #112 (permalink)
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I have recently read a new book which may be of interest to those following this thread: "Floyd Patterson: a Boxer and a Gentleman," written by Alan Levy and newly published by McFarland. Levy mentions several attempts to get Marciano out of retirement, but it's not clear whether that was ever a serious possibility.

In view of the upcoming Cooper-Johannsson fight in this alternate reality, it is also interesting to note that in RL when D'Amato was looking for an opponent for Patterson to fight prior to the defense against Johannsson, Cooper was one of the possibilities but according to Levy his people bargained hard, and since the fight was just supposed to be a tune up for Johannsson anyway, D'Amato took the easier Brian London instead. Johannsson looked like perhaps a little tougher challenge in 1959 than he does now -- his resume was thin by contemporary standards (21 fights) but he was undefeated and had a pretty impressive win over Eddie Machen, so he's one opponent of Patterson's that couldn't be regarded as a setup.

It's interesting to speculate about a Cooper-Patterson fight in early 1959, though....you have to wonder whether the Johannson-Patterson series would ever have happened.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:43 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Cus in my eyes is blatently trying to avoid Marciano, in no uncertain terms the fact that Marciano might make the top 5 and gain a title shot scares D'Amato, i mean the money would be there, and it would no doubt be a sell out crowd. So what if Marciano has been out of the ring for 2 years, easy pickings and good money for Patterson? I dont see what Patterson's camps problem actually is. The only person detracting from Pattersons title as champion is D'Amato himself. Make the fight Hans Reuter! Make it impossible for Patterson to run anywhere else!
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:09 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Cus in my eyes is blatently trying to avoid Marciano, in no uncertain terms the fact that Marciano might make the top 5 and gain a title shot scares D'Amato, i mean the money would be there, and it would no doubt be a sell out crowd. So what if Marciano has been out of the ring for 2 years, easy pickings and good money for Patterson? I dont see what Patterson's camps problem actually is. The only person detracting from Pattersons title as champion is D'Amato himself. Make the fight Hans Reuter! Make it impossible for Patterson to run anywhere else!
I agree! You make a good point. But my take on D'Amato was that he wanted to have Floyd hold on to the title as long as possible--and make a lot more money over the long run. That's just my interpretation, and I'm sure there are others.

BTW, in the next issue of World Boxing Review our old pal, Skip Bailey, will be offering his insight on the D'Amato-Reuter wars.

And thanks for your comments!
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:11 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I have recently read a new book which may be of interest to those following this thread: "Floyd Patterson: a Boxer and a Gentleman," written by Alan Levy and newly published by McFarland. Levy mentions several attempts to get Marciano out of retirement, but it's not clear whether that was ever a serious possibility.

In view of the upcoming Cooper-Johannsson fight in this alternate reality, it is also interesting to note that in RL when D'Amato was looking for an opponent for Patterson to fight prior to the defense against Johannsson, Cooper was one of the possibilities but according to Levy his people bargained hard, and since the fight was just supposed to be a tune up for Johannsson anyway, D'Amato took the easier Brian London instead. Johannsson looked like perhaps a little tougher challenge in 1959 than he does now -- his resume was thin by contemporary standards (21 fights) but he was undefeated and had a pretty impressive win over Eddie Machen, so he's one opponent of Patterson's that couldn't be regarded as a setup.

It's interesting to speculate about a Cooper-Patterson fight in early 1959, though....you have to wonder whether the Johannson-Patterson series would ever have happened.
Thanks for the heads up! I'll try to get hold of this book--sound like it could really help me with this uni!

BTW, I have to give you your proper credit for the "conspiracy" angle. Your comments the other week about the undercard, etc. got me thinking.

Keep contributing!
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:52 PM   #116 (permalink)
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NEW YORK DAILY RECORD
May 18, 1957
REUTER REFUTES CONSPIRACY CHARGE
Threatens to Strip Patterson's Title

By Jack Talbot


Hans Reuter, president of the Universal Boxing Organization, today released a formal statement denying recent charges that he had conspired with former heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano to pave the way for a championship bout with current division titleholder, Floyd Patterson. The charges were made earlier this week by Cus D'Amato, Patterson's manager.

Reuter's complete statement follows.

"Cus D'Amato's claims are totally unfounded. While I did meet with Rocky Marciano last month, under no circumstances did I guarentee Mr. Marciano a ranking in the heavyweight division.

"The purpose of out meeting was to clarify the Universal Boxing Organization's policies related to the standards our organization employs to sanction title matches.

"During out meeting, I informed Mr. Marciano that to be ranked among the top ten by the UBO he must defeat ranked fighters. I also advised him that his status as a former titleholder was not enough for our ranking committee to place him among the top ten heavyweight boxers.

"Mr. Marciano will meet Tommy Jackson next month. Although Mr. Jackson is currently ranked fifth, I explained to Mr. Marciano that in the even he defeated Mr. Jackson, he could not assume that he'd automatically be listed in the top five by the rankings committee.

"Mr. D'Amato has also made reference to Binkie Bravetta and Starlight Entertainment concerning promotional aspects of Floyd Patterson's title bout with Harold Carter. The UBO is not involved in boxing promotion nor does it have the authority to enter dispute between managers and promoters.

"Nevertheless, the UBO has already sanctioned Mr. Patterson's June 15th defense against Mr. Carter and expects that this match will take place. Barring an injury or medical condition that is certified by an independent physician, Mr. Patterson is required to defend his heavyweight championship at this time.

"If this sanctioned and required title defense does not take place, I will recommend to the UBO's governing body that Mr. Patterson be stripped of his championship and the heavyweight title will be declared vacant."

Reuter has refused to offer any additional comments.

Several calls were made to D'Amato after Reuter's statement was released but he did return this newspaper's calls.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:34 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Way to stand up for principles there Reuter!
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:20 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Way to stand up for principles there Reuter!
Good Ol' Hans---he kinda grows on you!
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:31 PM   #119 (permalink)
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You inspired me to look through my 50s Ring Record books for some HW TCs and contenders that fit into your time frame. Just finished sending them to the mods.

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Old 01-02-2009, 04:24 PM   #120 (permalink)
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at the moment the politics is getting in the way of the fights. i just want reuter and D'amato to stop quarreling and sort it out so that the fights can be made.
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