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Old 11-21-2008, 07:53 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Henry Cooper

Cooper is remembered somewhat unfairly as one of the most famous bleeders in heavy history, he was also a dangerous boxer with good skills and a lethal left hook but also was somewhat fragile in the chin department.

STYLE - Boxer. Absolutley not a slugger. A skilled boxer with classic skills and style in the stand up British/European mold.

FIGHT INSIDE -1. Reduced, he didnt really come inside much, he preferred to box at range and then try to land Enry's Hammer.

FIGHT OUTSIDE - 3. Was as I said a really good skilled boxer although somewhat predictable in stance and movement.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT - 3. He has power to spare in that left hand and used it often. A very dangerous fighter when on his game.

DRAW POWER -8. Hugely popular in England. Without doubt one of the most beloved figures in british sporting history. This rating drops off hugely out of the UK.

CONDITIONING - 3. A rather erractic career he would have a good win then a terrible loss with seemingly not much consistency, this rating tries to reflect that rather than any indication of training problems.

INTELLECT - 7. A slight increase here as he was well schooled and was quite disciplined with his game plan.

CONTROL VS BOXER - 9. Increase of one here as he was a good contender in the sixties and almost defeated Ali but always had slightly more problems with boxers who wouldnt come to him.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -10. See above was most comfortable countering on rushing fighters with his powerful hooks.

RECOVERY -3. Degraded by one, there were a couple of occasions he collapsed once hurt eg the Patterson fight.

KILLER INSTINCT -8. Up slightly he was quite ruthless and controlled once an opponent was hurt.

DEFENSE -0. A quite effective defense if somewhat stationary but a good high guard and tight defense served him well.

HITTING POWER - 9. Up three, he is undervalued in the game here, he wasant a real one punch ko man but even so his left hook was one of the most feared in the division when he was active and he took apart some very good men with it. The most famous example is dumping Ali on the seat of his pants with it, A 9 here means his opponents are always worried about it being unleashed.

PUNCHING - 38. He was not slow and was considered skilled and accurate so a 36 is not right, I would up it more but he was primarily a counterer.

COUNTERPUNCHING -42. Again up two. he was a very good counterpuncher and was comfortable taking decisions from guys like Folley. A 42 here makes that more possible.

PUNCHES - Increase the hook, especially the 3 pointers, reduce the crosses and combos to compensate.

OVERALL RATING - 8. Up three, a big increase I know and maybe some of you are thinking mmm hes a fellow Brit what a surprise, but I know this fighter well and this rating will enable him to be much more competative agianst guys like Ali and Folley but he will still very much flatter to deceive and ust as he puts together a couple of excellent victories you will despair as he gets ko'd or stopped on cuts to someone he shouldnt have. A good solid contender at 8 and minor prospect for the title hes a nearly man with his weaknesssess keeping him away from a title run.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:40 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Ingemar Johansson

Ingo is pretty accurate as is just needs tweaking somewhat.

STYLE - Boxer. Again just because he was powerful does not make him a slugger. He was also a stand up classic European boxer but in his case his right hand was the huge pay off punch for him.

FIGHT INSIDE -1. Didnt come inside often preferred keeping a bit of distance to enable his right hand to be effective.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT -3. His primary tactic was to unleash his toonder and lightning punch in fact sometimes that was his only tactic.

INTELLECT - 6. He had a bit more ring savvy than given credit for with ok boxing skills but fell in love with his right hand and didnt use them that much.

CHIN VS KNOCKDOWN -3. Swapping this rating round with chin vs knockout. In truth he wasant that often in trouble but when he was he often didnt get back up.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT -4. See above.

KILLER INSTINCT 9. An excellent finisher when he had a fighter hurt and rarely let them off the hook.

AGRESSIVENESS -8. He was agressive but due to boxing style still controlled.

FAST STARTER -0. Dangerous in the extrem from the very first round, just ask Machen.

HITTING POWER - 11. A huge puncher with his right hand. this was a truly fight ending weapon, his left however was below average and you could almost call him a one handed fighter. If not for this i would be tempted to give him a 12. His power brought him the title and was the chief weapon in his armoury dont underestimate how powerful his toonder and lightning shot was.

PUNCHES - increase his 3 points crosses quite a bunch reduce down the hooks considerably and ensure his jab is only 2 pointers as it was just a pawing range fighter for the right hand.

OVERALL RATING - 8. Quite a limited champion up one here and really lucked into the championship when facing Patterson. Floyd beats him 3 times out of 4 with these ratings which is accurate I think but when Ingo wins, he wins big.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:59 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by djday45 View Post
Mmm, Not sure Thunder, mine is def coming up with a 10. I must have missed something?
Maybe . . no biggie. I think that any more improvement might be bordering on overkill, but thanks for checking.

I looked at the old Folley and I think you're clearly right, he wasn't good enough. (I ran him 100 fights each against his real life opponents that have ratings and his winning pct. was too low). I employed your changes and his numbers came out above his career winning pct. against those opponents.
So I found a happy medium I was comfortable with that produced numbers that worked for me.

Great thing about TB, to each their own. I might not always agree with your numbers, but at least people are still thinking critically about that which we have to work!
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:39 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Eddie Machen

Machen much like Folley is slightly underated in the game but in some respects they have him right on the button.

As ususual if I dont mention the rating I agree with it.

STANCE - Left Handed. Machen was a righty but he was infamous for making people he fought look bad. Something in his style made bad fights and even normally exciting fighters often seemed to be pulled down to his "level" a left handed rating here works well to represent that.

STYLE - Boxer. He was pretty rigied in his style which was that off a classic counter puncher he backed away and backed away and in the mean time piled up points and took lesser foes to school and then apart.

FIGHTING OUTSIDE -3. His favourite form of attack was to box on the outside and often on the defensive.

COVER UP -3. a slippery customer in the extreme haard to pin down unless caught cold early. This guy went the distance with Liston.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -11. Up one all his best results came against sluggers, he had some problems against boxers who failed to lead and played him at his own game the classic counterpunchers dilemma. Against sluggers he is all buissness and gives them a world of trouble.

KILLER INSTINCT -4. Down two he had very little killer instinct as his general safety first nature often prevented him from opening up and taking chances.

ENDURANCE - 9. Up one, he trained for distance fights and also geared his strategy towards pacing himself in the extreme, many would say he paced himself only too well lol.

DEFENSE -2. He had an excellent slippery defense using good movement and a generally very cautious attitude to ensure he took as little damage as possible.

HITTING POWER -5. Down one here. A very average puncher who was not helped in his stoppage ratio by his general style. A rating of 6 here is over baking his power a tad.

PUNCHING -40. Up one level average speed but very good accuracy ensures I put him slightly over average here to make sure he is effective as he should be.

COUNTERPUNCHING -42. Again up one level to match above and to show he was primarily he was a counterpuncher and a very effective one at that.

OVERALL RATING -9. up one which puts him with Folley as the best of the contenders who failed to fight for the title in Pattersons reign.
With these ratings Folley and Machen split their fights 50/50 which im very, very happy about.
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:14 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Mmm, Not sure Thunder, mine is def coming up with a 10. I must have missed something?
Thunder came up with the same result I did--a rating of 9 for Zora, which I don't have a problem with personally, but maybe there was something you forgot to mention. If so, please let us know--I'm having a blast working through these revisions!
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:04 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Last edited by swampdragon; 11-21-2008 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Duplicate post
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:04 PM   #127 (permalink)
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I love it when the Day Council is this active. It makes me want to start a 1950s 5 sport replay.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:42 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by professordp View Post
Thunder came up with the same result I did--a rating of 9 for Zora, which I don't have a problem with personally, but maybe there was something you forgot to mention. If so, please let us know--I'm having a blast working through these revisions!
Have edited my original Folley post, you will find it amusing lol.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:45 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Have edited my original Folley post, you will find it amusing lol.
Hahahaha, indeed!! Not the first time that's happened . . bloody game!
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:13 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Archie Moore

Ok this is obviously Moore as a heavyweight not at his best as a light heavy.

Moore was surprisingly still very effective as a heavy contender and was a serious championship threat all through the 50's.

STYLE - Either. A true boxer/puuncher Moore's crafty then explosive style was a wonder to behold.

FOULS - Ocassionally. Was not adverse to getting dirty if the job needed it.

FIGHT INSIDE - 2. Did this less often than at light heavy but was still effective coming inside.

FIGHT OUTSIDE -2. Again was more stationary at the higher weight but could still be very good boxing from distance.

COVER UP -4. Against the heavies by this time in his career Archie had become so cute. He was very hard to pin down due to his vast experience.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT - 3. Was still very dangerous at heavy and stopped many of his opponents here, the man had more ko's than anyone else!

CLINCHING -71. As mentioned was somewhat stationary at heavy and was excellent at holding and breaking up his opponents offense.

DRAW POWER -7. A lesser draw at heavy slightly due to him being continually written off as too old. He managed to make them eat thei words on most occasions.

CONDITIONING - 6. He was aging still though and he could be inconsistent in his performances witness the awful fight against Patterson as an example.

INTELLECT -10. One of the craftiest, cutiest fighters who ever lived.

CONTROL VS BOXER -10. As he got older at this weight, fast mobile guys gave him more trouble as his reflexes dulled due to extra weight and age.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER - 11. He was always more comfortable even at light heavy with straight ahead guys coming into his firepower range, no change here at heavy.

CHIN VS KNOCKDOWN -3. His chin never granite even at light heavy could def be reached at the higher weight.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT - 4. see above, all his stoppage losses came at heavy. This was no crime especially consiering the quality of opposition but still has to be noted.

RECOVERY -3. His recovery powers here were ok not great.

RESISTANCE TO CUTS -2. His scar tissue was holding up pretty well stillat this advanced career stage.

ABSORB PUNISHMENT -3. It wasant a lack of heart at all he just had trouble absorbing the heavier firepower at heavy.

KILLER INSTINCT -8. A drop from light heavy, he waited much more at heavy mostly because he knew he had to be more careful due to the opponents increased power.

AGRESSIVNESS -7. At heavy he let them come to him and then reacted either slipping away from danger or stinging them with short hurtful punches he didnt often pursue.

ENDURANCE - 8. His stamina at this weight was good but not great and he did sometimes tire late in fights, give the guy a break he was ancient lol.

DEFENSE - -4. Still a wonderful crab like defense, added to this his guile and experiance and it was no wonder he managed to negate so much of his opponents attack.

FAST STARTER -2. He always had a look see before warming up for the night.

FIGHT ON ROPES -1. A very cute fighter when in dangerous positions.

HITTING POWER -7. Way down from my light heavy eaying but still very respectable and quite capable with the rest of his attributes and syle to cause stoppages at the higher weight just as he did.

PUNCHING -40. Not so much fast just very accurate, skilled and experianced, again this is way down from light heavy but still above average.

COUNTERPUNCHING -42. Always a natural counterer in style he became even more so at heavy, conserving his attack and energy till he felt the moment was right.

PUNCHES MISSED -61. Quite conservative in his output and energy he didnt waste many punches.

PUNCHES - the make up of his punches as given is fine.

OVERALL RATING - 9. A real top class contender for the heavy crown in the fifties who gave Marciano some scary moments, Moore still had some weaknessess but he should be firmly in the top ten of your uni during his era. Note i have listed all ratings catergories even if I kept them the same as I wanted to explain my thoughts behind his rating at this higher weight.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:35 PM   #131 (permalink)
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John Holman

A very minor contender the game has him pretty damn accurate, he was only ranked by the ring in 1955 and he didnt last long.

STYLE - Slugger. A brawler with respectable power, he didnt have the skills to be an either.

INTELLECT -5. A slight drop he was a face first fighter with not much subtlety.

KILLER INSTINCT -7. A slight improvement. He was not a bad finisher when needed and roused.

HITTING POWER -8. Up two his best attribute was respectable power not a big hitter he none the less could and did hurt and stop opponents if he caught them right Satterfield, Charles and Brion attest to that.

COUNTERPUNCHING -32. Down somewhat. He was a face first brawler countering was really not his bag.

OVERALL RATING -3. Remains the same on his day he might score an upset but will have a hard time staying in your top ten.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:16 AM   #132 (permalink)
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George Chuvalo

What a tough fighter, the game has him pretty much on, just a few ammendments here.

FIGHT INSIDE -4. Up two, way too low He was an amazing fighter on the inside, this is where he ate, his whole schtick was to be a warrior on the inside.

FIGHT OUTDIDE -1. Im not saying he couldnt do it, but he didnt, Chuvalo always came foward, always closed down the distance often throwing bombs.

COVER UP -3. This represents that he was better defensively than often given credit for, and will also work to ensure he has less chance of being stopped in the game as in reality.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT -3. A big, big puncher with over 60 stoppages to his name, Chuvalo was always looking for a killer blow.

CONDITIONING -2. Nearly always in top condition, he jsut misses out on a 1 by a whisker.

CONTROL VS BOXER -8. Always had trouble, big trouble with movers, nearly all his losses came against boxers that gave him mobility to contend with.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -11. Against that he was alays so effective against face first guys and took the vast majority of them out, this higher rating will also let him compete longer vs Foreman and Frazier.

HITTING POWER -10. Up one. He had over 60 stoppages! his hooks were very nasty indeed as were his combos to the body and head.

COUNTERPUNCHING - 32. Down slightly as I wanted to keep the differance of 4 from his punches was seen as somewhat slow and wild.

PUNCHES MISSED -65. Reflecting the above and his sheer volume of punches.

OVERALL RATING -10. The same, this rating is a "soft" ten though pushed up by his durability ratings. He will still lose quite a few decisions to the smarter boxers active in your uni.
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Old 11-22-2008, 01:50 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Joe Erskine

He was a good solid boxer but had little power and a dodgy chin, a minor contender.

CLINCHING - 68. He had good footwork and movement and this rating reflects that.

CONDITIONING -3. Was in good nick most of the time but was slightly erratic.

CONTROL VS BOXER -10. Had good boxing skills and competed well against men who didnt over power him, his problems came against punchers.

CHIN VS KNOCKDOWN - 3. Improved by one most of his stoppage losses actually came from tko not when he was off his feet.

RECOVERY -2. improved by one. good to average recovery, he didnt collapse in fights more often just stopped fighting back.

ABSORB PUNISHMENT - 4. Degraded by one, as above if stopped he is most likely to have stopped fighting due to heavy punishment.

ENDURANCE -8. Average stamina with many winning and losing decisions on his record.

DEFENCE - -2. Big improvement here, his best attribute was his boxing skills and good footwork. a +2 here is very wrong. This is what kept him a minor contender.

HITTING POWER -3. His stoppage percentage is good enough that he deserves a paltry 3 here not a 1.

COUNTERPUNCHING -38. Bringing this in line with his punches landed to show he was skilled as a boxer but not overly so also shows his safety first style.

OVERALL RATING -5. Up two the 3 was quite low and he was a minor contender for some years 55-64 and defeated such men as Cooper (twice) and Pastrano. Against sluggers he is very brittle and will lose to top men on a regular basis. A minor British heavy contender who on his day was a good solid boxer.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:12 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Nino Valdes

Valdes was a good contender in the mid 50s. Not far off in the game, He could just be a bit more dangerous.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT - 3. He was primarily a puncher with dangerous power, this would be a tactic of choice.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -11. Up one as he was far more dangerous against stationary opponents as is often the case with punchers.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT -3. Improved by one. Valdes chin is a complicated thing he was ko'd or stopped 6 times but and its a big but only one of these came while he was in his prime. the other 5 came very early in his career as a very green fighter or at the very end after he was shot.
He should not have what is considered a good chin but it should not be bad either a 3 is a nice number for him.

RECOVERY -3. See above, improved by one. He only really collapsed once in his career against charley powell but this was at the very end after he had been fighting 18 years, again not realy solid but not terrible either.

ABSORB PUNISHMENT -2. Improved by one. he was considered quite brave and often took punishment to give it and was only tko'd once by Powell as mentioned before, he withstood the blows of quite a few hard punchers such as De John, Satterfield, Miteff and Moore.

KILLER INSTINCT -8. up one he was a dangerous slugger quite capable of hurting you and then taking you out.

AGRESSIVNESS - 8. Up one, if we take an 8 as the starting point for most punchers and brawlers this is a reasonable score for him.

FAST STARTER - 1. He often finished his foes in the first few rounds so should be dangerous from the off.

HITTING POWER 10. Up two. Quite hard to place him, ive seen stuff calling him a 50's Earnie Shavers and wax lyrical about his power and then I look at his record and there are guys going the distance with him that should not be if that is true. I think he should be on the low end of one punch punchers. So a 10 is about right, he was better than a hurtful, stiff puncher but he was a bit inconsistent to be put in the moster liston, shavers class either.

COUNTERPUNCHING -34. Down two levels, he was not subtle and not particuarly fast, bringing this down ensures his ox like reflexes are not over estimated.

OVERALL RATING -7. Up one. a good contender especially if the current champ is a puncher but two limited in boxing skills to have a run as a title holder. He shouls still def have received at least one shot at the heavyweight crown.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:04 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Wayne Bethea

A journeyman/minor contender of the late 50's Bethea was twice ranked in the rings yearly top ten, but he will struggle to make an impact in your uni for long.

STYLE - Boxer. He was a plodding boxer of mechanical skill, he liked to come foward but was too slow to make an impact with the cream of the division.

COVER UP -3. Up two, only stopped once in his whole career and never ko'd Bethea was very hard to take out.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT -1. a mid to low range puncher he was still capable of taking out minor contenders on occasion.

INTELLIGENCE -6. Up two, a four was far two low for him, he was a capable boxer and experianced and ring wise.

DEFENSE - +2. Degraded by one step, he was not quick and his defense for a boxer was average at best.

HITTING POWER -4. Up three, a one here was far two low, he stopped Earnie Cab, Harold Carter and Joe Bygraves amoung others. Not a powerful man by any means but not power puff either, "solid" is a good description.

PUNCHING -34. He was slow but not that slow lol. He was still a boxer with reasonable skills enough to get into the top ten for two years.

COUNTERPUNCHING - 30. Down one level to show he was an agressive boxer and didnt have the reflexes to counter.

Overall rating -5. Up one, durable, solid but slow, a journeyman who will not often surprise you, he does what it says on the tin.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #136 (permalink)
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Willie Pastrano

This is his heavy rating only, he was ok as a heavy just a bit lightweight in more ways than one, his natural speed advantages at light heavy were somewhat negated with the bigger boys so he lost some of his uniqueness, still a contender however if not perhaps top draw title material

FIGHT INSIDE - 1. Not his forte, all his strengths were in keeping the distance, why come inside?

FIGHT OUTSIDE -3. His stock in trade was to move on the outside peppering his opponent with numberous jabs.

COVER UP -3. He was very cute and experianced customer. very hard to nail.

INTELLECT - 9. Slight decrease just to reflect he was less effective strategy wise at the higher weight.

CONTROL VS BOXER 9. Down quite a bit from light heavy (i have him at 11 there) this is a reflection that really he wasant big enough physically and ths really hmpered him at heavy strength wise.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -9. See above.

CHIN VS KNOCKDOWN -3. A good chin just not used to taking heavyweight punishment.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT -2. Was still never stopped at this weight even so. His whole style was very slippery and that factors into this.

RESISTANCE TO CUTS -2. Was stopped on a cut eye against London so we must reflect that being a possibility.

ABSORB PUNISHMENT - 3. was tko'd vs Torres at the lower weight so at heavy this is a fair place to put him.

PUNCHING -38. Both punching and counters down one level as again this reflects the higher weight not suiting him and dulling his skills and reflexes.

COUNTERPUNCHING -42. See Above

OVERALL RATING -7. Down two from light heavy and this makes him a credible contender but not a long term threat for the crown, this reflects most light heavy champs that step up they rarely competed that well and usually lost in tries for the title until Spinks. Pastrano was skilled, slippery, a real technician but not someone that Liston, Patterson or Ali would have been scared of.
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:47 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Post-Prime Marciano

Dean,

I fooled around with a "comeback" rating for Marciano in the event I have him enter the uni. When you get a chance, give me some feedback/suggested adjustments.

Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:40 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Rocky Marciano

Ok here is Marciano first as a prime then in brackets any ammendments i might make to model him having a 2 or 3 year lay off.

STANCE - Left Handed. I strongly feel a way to make Rocky in the game the rampaging monster who was a nightmare for skilled boxers to face is to give him a tick in this rating. He was well known to be unorthadox and awkward in the extreme, in the beginning this was just him being unskilled and brutish but Weill managed to make it a big plus by the time he was a contender. Punching from weird, if not totally wrong angles Rocky was a nightmare to predict and defend against. You guys know I like to use this category to represent special style factors which have an effect on an opponent.

STYLE - Sluuger. Doh

FOULS - Often. He was a dirty, dirty fighter and im very surprised, if not amazed that he did not lose a fight by DQ. (its quite possible you could change this rating to frequently to represent both his mistiming of his punches and also the growing frustration when he realises his skills are not the same in fights as they were and this realisation kicks in)

FIGHT INSIDE -4. A total monster inside one of the great heavies at this strategy. (3). Maybe reduce it down one to represent him not being able to to quite what he once did.

FIGHTING OUTSIDE - 1. He was not really able to change his style to a boxer, his instincts took over.

COVER UP -1. As above, as with many great punchers he was just so unused to going on the defensive he was bad at it.

GOING FOR KNOCKOUT -4. Again he was simply superb at this, its where he lived. His whole aim was to take out his opponent. (3). Again think seriously of taking this down a notch after his layoff, good way of showing rust.

CLINCHING -73. Really not a mover apart from cutting off the ring, he often mauled inside however. (75). take away some more movement and make him maul even more so. fighters after layoffs lose their legs first in most cases.

DRAW POWER -10. This is a given, an amazingly popular fighter.

CONDITIONING - 1. One of the best conditioned fighters in history. (7) Depends on how your doing his comeback, if its only a single fight make him inactive, if a slow continued comeback then maybe start with a 7 then cycle through 4,3,2 every few fights to represent him slowly making progress and getting back to his former self, i would stop at a 2 so it shows he cant quite get back to his glory days of fitness.

INTELLECT - 6. Not an amazingly thinking fighter his stratergies didnt need to be to be honest.

CONTROL VS BOXER 12. he always had more probs with movers as is quite classic with his style he was nearest to defeat against Walcott and La Starza.
(10). This should take a big hit after the comeback. they would seem even faster and out of reach to him after 2 or 3 years off.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -15. He is totally on the plateau with Foreman, Dempsey and Louis vs sluggers. a total wrecker of a fighter against guys who could not get out of the way. (14) this would take a small hit after the comeback but not so much as against boxers.

CHIN VS KNOCKDOWN -1. He had an amazing chin and was down only a couple of times in his career and always got back up. (2). This would suffer slightly after the comeback, every couple of years I would degrade it again. see what happened to james jeffries.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT -0. See above, he truly was a rock of a man. I would not degrade this after the comeback, he would still keep getting up and taking a beating, not a good thing for his health.

RECOVERY -0. He had amazing powers of recovery, one of the best in division history. (2) I would degrade this two streps for the comeback again see Jeffries as the model as to what could happen.

RESISTANCE TO CUTS -3. He bled often and sometimes very badly, again in the modern era I really feel he would have not been undefeated, he would have lost both on cuts maybe multiple times and on DQ. (4) His scar tissue would have got worse, he would have bled even more easily.

ABSORB PUNISHMENT 1. This is a no brainer he was one of the most courageous heavyweights ever, period.

KILLER INSTINCT -10. A great, great finisher totally ruthless. (8) I feel this would be affected, his reactions would be dulled and his speed would effect his finishing ability.

AGRESSIVNESS -10. A total bull coming foward he would dominate and take the ceter of the ring against nearly all heavies.

ENDURANCE -10. He had amazing stamina durig his prime years and was just s dangerous in the championship rounds as early in the fight. (9). He would take a small hit here jsut to represent the effect on his body of aging and lack of training.

DEFENSE +4. His big weakness is here. He got hit a lot, sometimes an awful lot, really he never developed a good defense other than his offense. (+6). If I could make this worse i would, this is where all comebacks fighters are normally never the same, their reflexes.

HITTING POWER -13. One of the hardest hitting heavies in history, his blows here like sledgehammers especially his right hand Suzy Q. (12) A slight degrade, to represent his loss of snap and timing not a degrade in real power.

PUNCHING -40. He wasant particuarly accurate fast or skilled but oh my god the sheer volume of punches. (36) Again this would take a big hit, the volume would be the same but the timing would be often woefully off.

COUNTER PUNCHING - 36. See above in no way a counterer. (32) This again would take a big drop, its always the speed timing and reflexes which go out of the window, they can see the opportuities they just cant take them.

PUNCHES MISSED - 64. Due to his punching style of high volume he was always going to waste punches. (66) even more so after the comeback.

OVERALL RATING - 13. A true all time great.
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:43 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Duane Bobick

Taking a quick break from 50's guys to do a couple of requests for Dennis.

Bobick is very underated now, people forget he defeated both Holmes and Stevenson as an amateur. and before his loss against Norton he was considered a real contender for the championship.

DRAW POWER -7. Vastly underated by the game here Bobick had a big following and was considered the next white hope after Quarry.

CONDITIONING -9. He was always easily distracted by out of the ring distractions and the biggest of these was his brothers death in a car crash, Bobick was never the same after and never really looked to care about his career in the ring after this event.

INTELLECT -5. He was no genius in the ring but he wasant a 2.

CONTROL VS BOXER - 10. Im upping this and slugger control by two because he was a threat to the title and also it represents his physical attributes which were impressive, he had great natural strength and physique and often bullied opponents.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER - 10. See above, his lack of boxing skills stops me taking this higher than 10.

CHIN VS KNOCKOUT -5. Degraded one step, it cannot be ignored that when he got in with guys that could bang he often went down and out. I dont know perhaps he didnt want it enough but he certainly collapsed in his biggest bouts.

DEFENSE +4. Bad defensively, never really learned how to protect himself always a face first brawler.

HITTING POWER -10. Up one a genuine one punch man, but again it seemed to desert him when he most needed it so I cant go above 10.

PUNCHING -38. He was considered on the slowish side but his great amateur experience ensures i bring this up to at least average as he was better schooled and seasoned than most heavies.

COUNTERPUNCHING -34. He was not in any way a counterer, too agressive and slow.

OVERALL RATING -5. Up one, this rating will ensure he does dispatch most guys underneath him with a bit of ease but then he will blow up spectacuarly against the real cream of the division or the occasional dangerous puncher.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:13 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djday45 View Post
What a tough fighter, the game has him pretty much on, just a few ammendments here.

FIGHT INSIDE -4. Up two, way too low He was an amazing fighter on the inside, this is where he ate, his whole schtick was to be a warrior on the inside.

FIGHT OUTDIDE -1. Im not saying he couldnt do it, but he didnt, Chuvalo always came foward, always closed down the distance often throwing bombs.

COVER UP -3. This represents that he was better defensively than often given credit for, and will also work to ensure he has less chance of being stopped in the game as in reality.

GO FOR KNOCKOUT -3. A big, big puncher with over 60 stoppages to his name, Chuvalo was always looking for a killer blow.

CONDITIONING -2. Nearly always in top condition, he jsut misses out on a 1 by a whisker.

CONTROL VS BOXER -8. Always had trouble, big trouble with movers, nearly all his losses came against boxers that gave him mobility to contend with.

CONTROL VS SLUGGER -11. Against that he was alays so effective against face first guys and took the vast majority of them out, this higher rating will also let him compete longer vs Foreman and Frazier.

HITTING POWER -10. Up one. He had over 60 stoppages! his hooks were very nasty indeed as were his combos to the body and head.

COUNTERPUNCHING - 32. Down slightly as I wanted to keep the differance of 4 from his punches was seen as somewhat slow and wild.

PUNCHES MISSED -65. Reflecting the above and his sheer volume of punches.

OVERALL RATING -10. The same, this rating is a "soft" ten though pushed up by his durability ratings. He will still lose quite a few decisions to the smarter boxers active in your uni.
Chuvalo is one of my favorite "Golden Era" heavyweights. I saw his fight with Foreman and he didn't flinch once when he was hit with those massive bombs. Amazing durability and a rock solid chin.

Will you be doing an update on Cleroux?
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