Thanks, Cap,Conn Chris, Chargerfan1, (Cap'n Crunch?)

[steamboat brand, palooka]

(I'm sure SOMEONE helped, and didn't begin with a "C".)
Thanks so much for all these old photos of fighters I'd NEVER think I'd see. I had been using my homemade ratings, and having bouts among these old White Hope Era heavyweights, along with Jack Johnson, Langford, Joe Jeanette, Sam McVea, Battling Jim Johnson, and Jeff Clarke. The year depicted was 1912, and it was a lot of fun, but I lost interest simply because I didn't know what most of these guys really looked like. It was almost as if names were duking it out, with no image available.
Now, amazingly, I own a photo of almost everyone I rated. I think you guys know how excited I am. I have Asperger's Syndrome, and when I get into something, I REALLY get into something! I had the knowledge of this period in boxing, and the interest, but not the pictures, and now I do. Each new photo is like a priceless Christmas present. Thanks again, guys.
Here is my list of the last masked men remaining(one literally), in alphabetical order.(I am somewhat skeptical of Dan Daly's photo; it looks like a different, much lighter Dan Daly-Dan was actually 210)
1. Soldier DELANEY
2.Sailor Fred FRITTS
3.Tom McCARTY(possibly Luther's cousin)
4.Jack McFARLAND
5.Victor McLAGLEN
6.Jeff MADDEN
7.Sailor WHITE
8.and last-Bob "The Masked Marvel" WILLIAMS I can live without Bob's
photo, because your next door neighbor could have knocked him out, or at least won a one-sided decision. He just missed getting into my top 50 White Hopes*.

*Two things that made ratings very tough were 1. the unknown potential of Luther McCarty(that is why I chose 1912, a year in which he fought regularly)2. The difficulty in rating black heavyweights, with the infrequent meetings with white heavyweights. I just used "Title Bout's" boardgame ratings for THe BIG FOUR, and made Battling Jim Johnson(slugger) and Jeff Clarke(boxer) equal to the very best white hopes. This creates a realistic battleground for me. Charger Fan1, I'm going to post them, I promise, as soon as I get them back from Tx. I want my hands on them, again, too. I may have to wait until summer, when my boy comes up, though. Steamboat

[Cap]

Here's a photo of Oscar-winner Victor McLaglen who boxed briefly.

[Cap]

Found this photo labelled Fred Fritz in an old magazine. Don't know if this is the same guy. Have to double check next time I take a trip in the Way-Back machine.....

Cap

[Cap]

By an amazing coincidence these two pics were just handed to me by a strange-looking dog and a big-headed kid with glasses...I give you Soldier Delaney and...

[Cap]

Jack McFarland. Not very good. Maybe Leeskye can do something with them.

[ChargersFan1]

Do you know Sailor White's boxrec # and do you know his real name or other aliases?

Here is what I have for Victor McLaglen:

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Cap

Found this photo labelled Fred Fritz in an old magazine. Don't know if this is the same guy. Have to double check next time I take a trip in the Way-Back machine.....

Cap

Thanks Cap!! And it's Fred (Soldier) Fritts - boxrec #039877 if anyone cares to rate him.

Christopher

[steamboat brand, palooka]

Good Lord! If I'm ever going to have "the big one", that was just the time! Soldier Delaney, Jack McFarland, (a likely)Sailor Fritts, AND Victor Mc LLaglen, all at once, after 25 years! You guys are FINALLY getting these guys out of hiding. I first starting doing SERIOUS research on this period around 1980, and in that time I only saw pictures of the big names; Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Joe Jeanette, Sam Mc Vey, Luther McCarty, Gunboat Smith, Jess Willard, and a few others. However, to me, Soldier Kearns, Sailor White, Battling Jim Johnson, and guys like Al Kubiak were just as much a part of the period. For a very long time, until the last couple of months, here, I thought I'd never get a chance to see the rest of the guys I had rated for my "Title Bout" board game. But now, only FOUR(!!!) of my rated fighters are still unseen:
1.Tom McCARTY
2.Jeff MADDEN
3.Sailor WHITE
4.Bob "THe Masked Marvel" WILLIAMS
4 1/2.Dan DAILY(DALY) another view, to ease my doubts about his photo.
Sailor White is very symbolic of the period for me because he fought many of the better known fighters(off the top of my head-Frank Moran, Gunboat Smith, Jack McFarland, Al Palzer, Arthur Pelky, Soldier Kearns, Victor McLaglen, Jim Savage, Jim Stewart)and he would usually get clobbered, which is an indication of the fighting ability of the great majority of White Hopes. I THINK that's Sailor close up, in the Ken Burns documentary on Jack Johnson, "Unforgivable Blackness.", as the narrator speaks of tournaments being held to find a new challenger, after James Jeffries lost. Sailor White was one of the fighters in a 1911 New York City tournament, along with Fred McKay. I had originally thought it was Al Palzer in the background(he won the tournament), but Cap's photo of McKay leads me to believe it might be McKay. The only White Hope Era heavy who resembles the pug close up is Jack Reeds side view, but I don't think Jack was in that tournament. If I recall Al Benedict was one of the entrants, as well. I have all the New York Times clippings from this period at my brothers house, down the road. They are great fun to go through. Thanks again.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

Well, I imagined Jack McFarland's hairline correctly.

[ChargersFan1]

Steamboat,

I figured out which Dan Daly the picture is of that I posted. It is Dan E. Daly, Boxrec#064546, a Featherweight from Nebraska who fought in the 1890's. He fought a 91 round (5 hr, 56 min) fight with Tommy White. We'll have to keep looking for HW Dan Daly.

Mark

[steamboat brand, palooka]

Thanks anyway, Charger Fan 1. I had a feeling it was a much littler guy than 210 pound Dan Daly(Daily), and with that name being fairly common, it was an easy one to overlook. I figured, if THAT Dan was 210, those guys in the background must be GIANTS! Back in those days, there were MANY heavyweights of Irish or Scottish descent. Just looking at my want list for photos shows you a lot of "Mcs". I may be getting my board game with ratings up from Texas, very soon. I thought it would be here already, but my life is going through a tough period, and I don't have a lot of options, so I must be patient. Charger, I've seen your requests for my ratings, and I'll be excited to share them with you here the very day I get my game back. The ratings may be a bit dissapointing because, though very accurate, I feel, I DID default on punches favored, due to inadequate knowledge about too many fighters. If I recall, my defense ratings went by 2 point intervals, from -6(Johnson, to +6(the worst palookas). I believe the fighters who won in real life, will win here, too. I collected ALL New York Times articles from this period, as well as a few London Times. If two fighters didn't actually fight each other(they fought a lot!), with all the accounts I had, I feel I could accurately predict who would have won between one guy and another(If one guy fought Bob, Ted, Jack, Tony,and Jeff, and the other guy fought Jeff, Tony, Ted and Bob, it gave me a good idea of the two fighters relative skill level.).Though Jack McFarland will through uppercuts at the same rate as Porky Flynn, Porky will box Jack's ears off, and though a light hitter, could possibly tko glass-jawed Jack in a late round.
Just for fun, here is another view of the guys I'll rate for you(I am now only missing photos of Sailor White and Dan Da(i?)ly!):
In order of geography, not talent,50 White Hopes, plus top six black heavyweights from 1912, for 56(I eliminated Jeff Madden, because he was rated number 50, I still don't have his picture, and I didn't have Charley Horn in my original fifty, which was a mistake). The weights are in five pound intervals, and it's so long ago i recorded them, I may have goofed on a few. I'll have them right, when I get the game back.
1.Sam Langford (black heavyweight)180 Boston
2.Porky Flynn 190 Boston
3.Andy Morris 190 Boston
4. Jack "Twin" Sullivan 170 Boston
5.George "One Round" Davis 190 Buffalo
6.Soldier Delaney 205 New York
7. Tom Kennedy 200 New York
8.Soldier Kearns 210 Brooklyn
9.Al Benedict 190 Brooklyn(oops, I just bumped into him, and accidently knocked him out!)
10. Sailor White 200 Brooklyn
11.Jim Savage 185 Orange, N.J.
12.Joe Jeanette(black heavyweight)195 Hoboken, N.J.
13.Battling Jim Johnson(black heavyweight)220 Philadelphia
14.Tim Logan 200 Philadelphia
15. Battling Levinsky 175 Philadelphia
16. Frank Moran 200 Pittsburgh
17.Tom McMahon 180 Pittsburgh
18. Dan Daily 210 New Castle, Pa.
19. Tony Ross 205 New Castle, Pa.
20. Al Williams 200 Cleveland
21. Al Kubiak 210 Michigan
22. Jack Reed 190 Indianapolis
23. Jack McFarland 200 Chicago
24.Jim Barry 210 Chicago
25.Jeff Clarke(black heavyweight) 190 Joplin, Mo.
26.Luther McCarty 205 Springfield, Mo.
27.Carl Morris 230 Sapulpa, Okla.
28.Al Palzer, 225 Ossian, Iowa
29 Jess Willard 230 Pottawatomie, Ks.
30. Jack Geyer 185 Denver
31. Jikm Flynn 185 Pueblo, Colo.
32. Jack Johnson(black heavyweight)205 Chicago
33. Tom McCarty 185 Montana(S.F.?)
34. Sam McVey(a) 210 Oxnard, Cal.
35. Gunboat Smith 180 S.F.
36. Charley Miller 225 S.F.
37. Al Kaufman 200 S.F.
38.Charley Horn 200 S.F.
39.Jack Lester 195(?) Seattle
40. Fred McKay 210 Canada
41.Arthur Pelkey 205 Canada(Chicopee, Mass.)
42. Vic McLaglen 200 Canada
43. Bombardie Wells 190 England
44. Tom Cowler 210 England
45.Gunner Moir(forgot) England
46. Ian Hague(forgot)England
47.Jim Coffey 205 Ireland
48. P.O. Curran 190 Ireland
49. Boer Rodel 190 South Africa
50. Fred Storbeck 190 South Africa
51. Bill Lang 190 Australia
52.Colin Bell 190 Australia
okay, I forgot four! Jeff Madden 210 Boston.

[Cap]

Found this pic of Sailor White. Maybe Leeskye can work his magic. One interesting bit. White appears to have been a southpaw.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

Cap, Sailor White's picture just made my day! Thanks. Sailor White fought many of the big names during that time, and usually lost. His name alone made him a mysterious, romantic figure, to me. I always saw his name, usually as the guy someone had knocked out, but I never saw his face, until today.
Now it's down to just TWO essential White Hope Era heavyweights!
1.Dan DAILY(DALY?)
2.Tom McCARTY(not Luther)
I could leave both Jeff Madden and Bob "The Masked Marvel" Williams out of my 1912 group, because both were marginal heavyweights(in Bob's case, VERY marginal). There IS one fighter who belongs more in 1913, and he fought and lost regularly in New York, that year: Al McCLOSKEY. I could DEFINATELY exclude him from any 1912 group. Now, if I began a 1913 set, he would be an essential Ko by.

[steamboat brand, palooka]

It looks like the boat might have left without Dan Daily, Tom McCarty, and Jeff Madden's photos. Their spirits contacted me, as I pedaled to this library, and here's what they said:

Dan Daily-"I need to be shown! I was a tough heavyweight. I would have taken Jack McFarland apart! I would have knocked him out in the fourth round! He wouldn't have been able to keep me away!"

Tom McCarty-"Title Bout old time boxing fans need to see me again! I would have boxed Jack McFarland's ears off for five rounds, and knocked him out in the sixth!"

Jeff Madden-"I was there in 1912! It's not important who I could beat! Well, I bet I could have beaten Bob "The Masked Marvel" Williams!"
(This brought back back the spirit of Bob "The Masked Marvel" Williams)

Bob "The Masked Marvel" Williams-"Jeff, I may have given you a tussle! Anything's possible! If only for comic relief, modern folks need to view my face, one more time! I didn't get beat to a pulp for nothin', you know!"

[bear]

bump

bear

[CONN CHRIS]

*** All photos have been moved and sorted - thread locked. ***