Trouble with modified database

3fbrown · 09-11-2010, 11:57 PM

I started asking about this in another thread, so to keep it separate, I will ask in a new thread, and with more details.

I want to adjust the database so that guys import when they started playing substantially in real life - not just when they received their first plate appearance. Like the old AnkitNorm database. Easy enough - just adjust the master.csv debut date accordingly. I am trying to do this starting in 1901.

However, I have found that no matter what I do, the importing of historical amateurs fails at the end of 1902. The initial import goes fine, and the 1901 draft (for 1902 rookies) is fine, but the 1902 draft (of 1903 rookies) has only fictional players.

I tested out the situation by editing just one guy. If I delete him entirely it fails. If I postpone his debut date, it fails. If I also adjust the batting.csv, fielding.csv, etc, to accomodate the later debut date, it still fails. Basically, any editing of the files fails, and always at the same time.

Any thought as to what could be going wrong?

3fbrown · 09-12-2010, 02:50 AM

Even stranger - I just opened master.csv, saved it (overwrote the file without changes), and the draft went to fictional guys in 1903. So maybe Excel itself is the problem.

Does Excel 2008 have problems saving .csv files correctly? Is there any option that won't screw it up?

Bristolduke · 09-12-2010, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fbrown

Even stranger - I just opened master.csv, saved it (overwrote the file without changes), and the draft went to fictional guys in 1903. So maybe Excel itself is the problem.

Does Excel 2008 have problems saving .csv files correctly? Is there any option that won't screw it up?

You do have to tell Excel it is saving a csv, but it will give you a message saying do you really want to save as csv since you may lose formatting (which is not a problem). Also, as I indicated in my PM. If you are using neutralizaed stats, then you must change the *2.csv files not the regular csv files.

Finally, I am assuming you have deleted the .odb file. Otherwise none of your changes are taking affect.

3fbrown · 09-12-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

You do have to tell Excel it is saving a csv, but it will give you a message saying do you really want to save as csv since you may lose formatting (which is not a problem). Also, as I indicated in my PM. If you are using neutralizaed stats, then you must change the *2.csv files not the regular csv files.

Finally, I am assuming you have deleted the .odb file. Otherwise none of your changes are taking affect.

I do delete the .odb file, and I have just been testing with the real stats for now, to keep it simple until I figure this out. When I saved with Textedit, there was no problem, so it seems to be something with the way Excel is saving the file. I will investigate Excel more, since you say it should work, maybe I am doing something wrong when I save.

Bristolduke · 09-13-2010, 08:59 AM

The way I do it is to backup the csv.

1. Make a copy of the csv.(rename as something)
2. Make whatever changes I want to make to the copy.
3. Open the original csv
4. Copy the column on the copy csv that is the data I'm changing
5. Paste Values on the column in the original csv
6. Close the original csv It then asks if I want to save the changes, and then if I want to save as csv.

3fbrown · 09-13-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

The way I do it is to backup the csv.

1. Make a copy of the csv.(rename as something)
2. Make whatever changes I want to make to the copy.
3. Open the original csv
4. Copy the column on the copy csv that is the data I'm changing
5. Paste Values on the column in the original csv
6. Close the original csv It then asks if I want to save the changes, and then if I want to save as csv.

Do you do all of this in Excel? What version of Excel do you use? Because even making *no* changes this fails with Excel for me, Excel 2008 I think.

Bristolduke · 09-13-2010, 08:00 PM

I'm using Microsoft Office Excel 2007, but I've done this with every version of Excel since at least Excel 97.

3fbrown · 09-15-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

I'm using Microsoft Office Excel 2007, but I've done this with every version of Excel since at least Excel 97.

I appreciate your suggestions - most of them I was already doing, others I tried, and I think they are all wise. But no luck, and with nobody else having advice, I am going to submit a tech support ticket to see if anything comes up that way. Thanks anyways!!

Bristolduke · 09-15-2010, 07:42 PM

If you want to send me the files and what DB you are trying to modify and I'll take a stab at them for you.

3fbrown · 09-16-2010, 08:27 PM

What files do you want? Just the master.csv file I "edited" (without any changes)? Anything else? It should be easy enough to check. I can post files to the board here, right?

Incidentally, the tech support reply was interesting. They don't have any useful thing to tell me, other than they know it is not Mac-specific, and that it may be impossible in general. That is, it may not be possible to run OOTP without the .odb file at all. It also sounds like it is such a major/difficult issue that it is not really on the agenda to deal with it anytime soon.

Bristolduke · 09-16-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fbrown

What files do you want? Just the master.csv file I "edited" (without any changes)? Anything else? It should be easy enough to check. I can post files to the board here, right?

Incidentally, the tech support reply was interesting. They don't have any useful thing to tell me, other than they know it is not Mac-specific, and that it may be impossible in general. That is, it may not be possible to run OOTP without the .odb file at all. It also sounds like it is such a major/difficult issue that it is not really on the agenda to deal with it anytime soon.

I sent you a PM with my e-mail. You probably can't post them here. I just need the files you have changed. I have all the originals.

They have stayed away from answering/addressing all the neutralized data and .odb issues, but I have to believe they will resolve them in 12. Lots of folks like to mod their leagues and every release until 11 has allowed that. To permanently break it now would chase a large population away. I can't see that happenning. That may be wishful thinking

Spritze · 09-16-2010, 09:56 PM

Only odb historical files currently work with OOTP11.

If you use the exact same csv files that make up the odb, edited or not, things breakdown. This seems to be because of the A) changes Mr. Lahman made to the data and B) formats in his files as well as the C) extra stuff (columns) attached by OOTP to Mr. Lahmans files.

Therefore using CSV files is not currently recommendisized for the simple reason that work they will not.

Bristolduke · 09-16-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

A) changes Mr. Lahman made to the data and B) formats in his files as well as the

I would like to know what you think those are. i have looked at his files and the changes most people seem to complain about (the times in the date field) were introduced by OOTP not Lahman. The sort order of the current Lahman is a bit skewed, but that is all. The rest of the issues were introduced by OOTP. Of course I have offered to fix the master.csv problem and have provided files, so laying this on an outside source seems a bit inappropriate. Especially since OOTP refuses to discuss and address the bugs.

BTW, CSVs will work without the odb in certain circumstansces. Another reason you can't blame Lahman.

Sorry for being blunt but OOTP 11 is the worst release in my opinion and the lack of accountability by OOTP (not you) is extremely disturbing. Particularly since I have a career in delivering software products and customer satisfaction. And this would never, never be an acceptable business practice.

3fbrown · 09-30-2010, 04:53 PM

Just to respond to Spritze, I have done some experimenting with editing the master.csv file, and here is what I have found. Editing the databases works fine when edited with a text editor (TextEdit on Mac, Notepad on PC). It also works fine when edited with Excel on a PC. It fails when edited with Excel on a Mac, or with OpenOffice spreadsheet on either platform. I deleted the .odb file in all cases.

I don't know what any of this means, but my suspicion is that OpenOffice and Excel (sometimes) saves the files in such a manner that the format of the dates can be messed up, to the extent that OOTP cannot read some of them. But I don't really know, and it isn't my goal to troubleshoot to that extent. But I do hope this is not a problem in future releases, because I like to run my historical league with a certain logic that is not supported by currently available databases, so I would like to option of creating that database myself.

09-11-2010, 11:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
3fbrown Bat Boy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Trouble with modified database I started asking about this in another thread, so to keep it separate, I will ask in a new thread, and with more details. I want to adjust the database so that guys import when they started playing substantially in real life - not just when they received their first plate appearance. Like the old AnkitNorm database. Easy enough - just adjust the master.csv debut date accordingly. I am trying to do this starting in 1901. However, I have found that no matter what I do, the importing of historical amateurs fails at the end of 1902. The initial import goes fine, and the 1901 draft (for 1902 rookies) is fine, but the 1902 draft (of 1903 rookies) has only fictional players. I tested out the situation by editing just one guy. If I delete him entirely it fails. If I postpone his debut date, it fails. If I also adjust the batting.csv, fielding.csv, etc, to accomodate the later debut date, it still fails. Basically, any editing of the files fails, and always at the same time. Any thought as to what could be going wrong?

09-13-2010, 08:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bristolduke Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 446 Thanks: 1 Thanked 72x in 59 posts	The way I do it is to backup the csv. 1. Make a copy of the csv.(rename as something) 2. Make whatever changes I want to make to the copy. 3. Open the original csv 4. Copy the column on the copy csv that is the data I'm changing 5. Paste Values on the column in the original csv 6. Close the original csv It then asks if I want to save the changes, and then if I want to save as csv. __________________ Commish of the Home Nations Baseball Association http://hnbaleague.com Diamond Kings - Toronto Blue Jays Savoy - Manchester Red Devils CBL Rewind - Cincinnati Reds Hardball Heros - Cincinnati Reds

09-13-2010, 08:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bristolduke Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 446 Thanks: 1 Thanked 72x in 59 posts	I'm using Microsoft Office Excel 2007, but I've done this with every version of Excel since at least Excel 97. __________________ Commish of the Home Nations Baseball Association http://hnbaleague.com Diamond Kings - Toronto Blue Jays Savoy - Manchester Red Devils CBL Rewind - Cincinnati Reds Hardball Heros - Cincinnati Reds

09-15-2010, 07:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bristolduke Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 446 Thanks: 1 Thanked 72x in 59 posts	If you want to send me the files and what DB you are trying to modify and I'll take a stab at them for you. __________________ Commish of the Home Nations Baseball Association http://hnbaleague.com Diamond Kings - Toronto Blue Jays Savoy - Manchester Red Devils CBL Rewind - Cincinnati Reds Hardball Heros - Cincinnati Reds

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09-12-2010, 02:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
3fbrown Bat Boy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Even stranger - I just opened master.csv, saved it (overwrote the file without changes), and the draft went to fictional guys in 1903. So maybe Excel itself is the problem. Does Excel 2008 have problems saving .csv files correctly? Is there any option that won't screw it up?

09-16-2010, 08:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
3fbrown Bat Boy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	What files do you want? Just the master.csv file I "edited" (without any changes)? Anything else? It should be easy enough to check. I can post files to the board here, right? Incidentally, the tech support reply was interesting. They don't have any useful thing to tell me, other than they know it is not Mac-specific, and that it may be impossible in general. That is, it may not be possible to run OOTP without the .odb file at all. It also sounds like it is such a major/difficult issue that it is not really on the agenda to deal with it anytime soon.

09-16-2010, 09:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,946 Thanks: 16 Thanked 344x in 242 posts	Only odb historical files currently work with OOTP11. If you use the exact same csv files that make up the odb, edited or not, things breakdown. This seems to be because of the A) changes Mr. Lahman made to the data and B) formats in his files as well as the C) extra stuff (columns) attached by OOTP to Mr. Lahmans files. Therefore using CSV files is not currently recommendisized for the simple reason that work they will not.

09-30-2010, 04:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
3fbrown Bat Boy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Just to respond to Spritze, I have done some experimenting with editing the master.csv file, and here is what I have found. Editing the databases works fine when edited with a text editor (TextEdit on Mac, Notepad on PC). It also works fine when edited with Excel on a PC. It fails when edited with Excel on a Mac, or with OpenOffice spreadsheet on either platform. I deleted the .odb file in all cases. I don't know what any of this means, but my suspicion is that OpenOffice and Excel (sometimes) saves the files in such a manner that the format of the dates can be messed up, to the extent that OOTP cannot read some of them. But I don't really know, and it isn't my goal to troubleshoot to that extent. But I do hope this is not a problem in future releases, because I like to run my historical league with a certain logic that is not supported by currently available databases, so I would like to option of creating that database myself.